Anime Sucks!

gay

Now that's what I call a comment that's laser-sharp to the point. Good work, Jon.

Right on man. I'm a fan of anime but I live in such a hic town that just the mention of it is rarer than seeing the Stanley Cup travelling the streets of Tampa Bay. Well, that's an overstatement but you get the picture. But i totally see what you mean, same thing every episode, not going full out until it's absolutely positively necessary, falling down when told something stupid or astonishing. I've seen episodes of a total of maybe a dozen animes. ones like digimon, medabots, pokemon, sailor moon, DBZ,Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Gundam Wing, Escaflowne and others, and to me they're some of the coolest things i've seen but there are just some things that piss me off. I'm prolly just repeating myself here so rather than sound redundant I'll stop.

I thought I was the only one that thought that way about anime and I am so glad to see that I am not the only one on this planet that thinks the same way. I've watched anime and have come to the same conclusions you have and I still can't understand how some people can watch it and be entertained, unless they really want to live faraway in the world or unreality land. When I watch or read something, I want to be more than just entertained (Unless it is a comedy that is MEANT to be funny). I want something believable and inspiring. Something that makes me think, and most importantly MAKES SENSE. I hate watching stuff that's unbelievalbe and doesn't make sense, becuase how can you relate to what you are seeing if it doesn't? You feel closer to something if you can reason with it, or make sense of it, and anime definately doesn't do that with anyone. It's its own thing, on its own planet. I like living on planet Earth thank you very much.

When John Glenn returns from space, everybody dress in Ape Suits. <<<<<<<<<<

secondly, hell with thoe lame motherfuking anime...go make porn or sumthing better ..|..

I agree. Somewhat. There are some anime, which it seems you were unfortunately watching... Which are EXTREMELY repetetive. Reason: No story to go on until more comics are published, usually.

Result:

Sailor Moon: 200 episodes (With only 18 volumes of manga, this should NOT have happened.)

Dragon Ball/Z/GT: 531 episodes (40 volumes of manga is a bit better, but not much, seeing as it was mostly fighting.)

Marmalade Boy: 74 episodes (8! 8?! 888???!!! 8 volumes. Utter crap.)

Card Captor Sakura: 70 episodes (Not much better at 12 volumes)

Hime-chan no Ribon: 73 episodes (10...)

Rurouni Kenshin: 95 episodes (28...)

Kodomo no Omocha: 102 episodes (10...)

Akazukin ChaCha: 74 episodes... (13...)

It goes on and on. Other things, such as:

Excel Saga: 26 episodes (8 volumes of manga, which really doesn't matter, as this anime doesn't make much sense, but is painfully funny...)

Fruits Basket: 26 episodes, 8 volumes of manga.

Ayashi no Ceres: 24 episodes, 14 volumes of manga. Cutting it a little close there...

Vandread 1st and 2nd Stage: 13 in 1st, 13 in 2nd. Both very good, do not drag, entertaining story.

You get the good and the bad. Sometimes you need to look deeper than commercial television to get to it, that's all.

I used to be REALLY in love with anime, until I saw a little more, a little more... Eventually, my opinion of it deteriorated a little. Now, I watch maybe 2-3 hours of it a week, MAYBE. Most often, no. There are some better shows coming out though, Noir, Hellsing, Tokyo Underground, Chobits, Abenobashi, Full Moon... Which may get me to watch a little more, seeing as I like some of their manga counterparts. You should look some more, maybe you'll find stuff you'll like. You probably will, and I recommend Excel Saga if you can get your hands on it, the first DVD just came out 2 days ago, on the 11th. Give it another try.

I hate anime and love it at the same time. I do agree that most anime is shit. The stupid titles with large breasts on the cover seem to be the only marketing feature. I saw many titles like that in hopes of a good story. Only I see a bunch of lame jokes and stupid girls. I doubt anyone is that brain dead. The plots are absent in those titles. I saw a retarded preview of Jungle de Ikou. It was a summary of every shitty anime title out there.

I think most of my negative opinions on anime are do to those emotionally disturbed anime fans. Who would crucify you if you said DBZ is rancid myscoginist shit. Or Sailor Moon is kiddy krap. I hate anime because of the moronic fans. It's like being part of a dark cult where anime is a virture to be hold. I've angered lots of DBZ fans because their stupidity annoys me. I've been exposed to that shit and I'll never recover. I want to scream grow out of your freaky cartoon fetishes already.

I've grown out of pokemon a while ago because it got repetitive to me like most anime. I know most anime isn't like pokemon. But I doubt I'll enjoy titles that encourage violence against females and other forms of female mistreatment.

Man that was awesome, and well put. I'm a Japanimation fan, but unlike most I'm not obsessed with it! Its ridiculous how many people will proudly place on their sites and screen names "Otaku this Otaku that" >_< GOD just makes you wanna virus them or something, Anime Otaku are bull...the Otaku Wannabes are a laugh...UGH and don't get me started on Anime Purist~! They are the top worst of anime fans.

I like ALL types of cartoons...Canadian, American, German etc etc. But everyone just puts Japan on this pedestal of greatness-for what?! They already think highly of themselves.

And now America is trying to get some good shows with Human characters (using what I call Disney style) and every freakin Otaku will pounce and go "RIP OFF" Lord someone slap them!

I *so* don't understand this obsession with anime. I've spent all summer living in an apartment with people who are obsessed with anime. Last week I saw a guy watch twelve straight hours or anime, breaking only to go to anime club, and calling in to work sick for the second night in a row so that he could keep watching. My roomates are so obsessed I can't communicate with them half the time: they all speak in Japanese (despite being from places like southern Indiana) and use expressions like, "Sweat drop!" in place of actual speach. They eat rice and suschi all the time, and the walls of the master bedroom are covered in ainme wall scrolls. One of the girls has printed enough pictures off the Internet to make an "anime door," which now requires an entire wall just to house it. Every CD they listen to is an anime soundtrack. Every reference has to do with anime. One is planning to teach English in Japan so that she can get anime cheaper--it's insane! Their entire lives revolve around anime. It's like they don't know that there's a world outside the ones drawn in Japan. And who the fuck invented hinti? Even thinking about "Cool Devices" makes shivers run down my spine. Are the Japanese trying to increase the popularity of statutory rape? I can't understand people who spend three or four hours a day, every day, watching characters with no faces and weak surface personalities talk in pygmy-voices and giggle. Not when there's a library in this town.

i think u guys r suck cause anime are the best invention of the human being.Get it??????I really hate u stupid. don't ever try to say stupid wourd about them.keep the words for yourselves.

anime are the best!!!and don't ever try u fuckin' guys mess with them.

Yeah. In case you had not noticed, the hilarious two messages above were posted by the same user (he so clever!).

Now, a question pops to mind. Do people that watch anime` end up writing like such 'tards, because:

a) Watching too much anime` takes me away from learning how to write coherently.

b) It's how students of anime` in Japan write! (insert some meaningless Japanese phrase).

c) It's how Marmelade Boy in Episode #70 would've done it!

SWEATDROP!!!!

It seems so ironic for people such as yourselves to say that anime sucks, and you know damn near every piece of japanimation ever created......You guys need to stop bitchin' and just understand that anime(in a couple of more years) will be the ONLY thing that you'll see on TV at ALL. Hell, on almost every station you either see Pokemon, Yu Gi Oh!, Medabots, Zoids, Transformers, Digimon, etc, etc, etc. flooding the stations. Either you guys actually enjoy watching anime, and just wanna bitch for no apparent reason at all, or you guys are doing nothing but watching "Hello Kitty" and assume that that's how ALL japanimation is....

Oh lord. I can't stand it. You're so...so...so...RIGHT! Oh thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK you from the bottom of my heart! I humbly beg permission to copy this little essay of yours and place it with pride on my own meager webpage. I agree wholeheartedly with every single thing you've said about the horribly vile nature of both anime and its fans.

I find nothing wrong in anime, what extremely disturbs me are people who are down to hell obsessed with it.

like this person (I pity the poor creature's soul...)

http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/cor2.html

Watch anime, but dont forget the real world....

My friends have taken it upon themselves to venture on a crusade to get me into anime. Much to their disappointment, I find myself feeling queasy every time they mention the word. They've been analyzing me up and down, trying to figure out what kind of mental malfunction I have because I don't like their precious anime. At first I thought it was funny; you know, they're trying to get me into their stuff, yeah, all well and good. Then they started sitting me down and forcing me to watch it. They deliberately set up "anime nights" so they could brainwash me. Each one asks why I don't like it. Well, for one, I don't like the style of drawing. There isn't one anime I've seen where you couldn't take any character from one show/movie, toss him into another and have him fit in perfectly. The main characters are redundant: they're all just about some kind of ruthless mercenary who finds out he has some sort of "destiny" in which he has to face off with overdressed, overbearing, gaudy demons of some type. Or maybe he has no destiny, he just blows away the bad guys. I'm sure there's more kinds than that, but that's all my friends show me. When I tell them I hate anime, they look at me with wide, furious eyes and tell me, "Gee, you're so full of hate. You need to have a better attitude, and then you'll probably like it" as if when I go out on the street and say "hello" to a stranger my taste in TV/movies would experience a wondrous revelation. As if you can't tell, I harbor no love for anime. But I don't really have a problem with people who do, as long as they keep it to themselves. If they watch it and they love it, that's their business. But when they start trying to push it on me and almost force me to watch it so I can become "enlightened", I have a problem with that. If someone doesn't like anime, then anime fans should just nod their heads in acceptance, bust out their Pop-Tarts, call in sick for work, dress up in their Cloud Strife uniforms and watch hours after hours of lovely anime. To me, it's more of a live and let live policy, not a live and "let's get others to love it because they don't want to" policy.

wow, I have never seen somebody complain about anime that much, and be supported that much. I personally love anime, but Im not a hardcore fan of it like some people. I could understand somebody not understanding how people could become so crazed over anime, but blatantly and all out hating it? I Know there's alot of crap out there, nut thats not all that's out there. Personally I believe that there is somthing for everyone when it comes to anime.

You made your point there perfectly. Especially when you described the asswipe faces and expressions of anime characters, the sorry wobbling before the expression, and the running-on-the-moon example. I could relate to all of that. The anime fans are also so brainwashed and "assholic", that they don't know whats better for themselves. It is by far the worst type of cartoon I have ever seen. There is only one thing that I disagree with: you said that anime is the next best thing to a giant enima. I think a giant enima is the next best thing to anime.

-A glimpse of reality-
by RealityWhisper

AMEN! You have said everything correctly, Jon! Anime is a load of crap! Everyone at my school thinks its so cool, and it has always been bugging me to death. I would like to point out, though, that people who like anime DON'T like the GOOD cartoons e.g. Spongebob, etc. etc, they just like anime. And if you start saying spongebob is good, they will scream and yell at you like your a complete idiot, "NO, ANIME IS THE BEST" Or "YOUR STUPID, ANIME IS THE ONLY GOOD KIND OF CARTOON!" Urggghhhh! AMEN! I love ya, man!

First of all you need to have an imagination to watch anime and actually like it. Only dumbasses like those simplistic American style animation series. Any good anime series actually makes you think about what you are watching. So basically shut the fuck up and find something better to do then complain about how uch you hate anime and go watch some disney gay ass shit you fucking simple minded faggots.

/_\

Fuck suck my fucking ass. You fools make me angry. Go jack-off you horny homo-erotic children. Or better yet go get tentacle raped okay? Then you'll find out how it feels up your fucking asses. Fuck Me.

/_\

"Fuck Me"

With or without tentacles?

Alright...what we have here is obviously some rabbit (bunny) who loves anime. However, the very notion that he voiced his opinion two consecutive times to give himself support [because no one else is] is absurd. He stated that you need an imagination to like anime. I could also enjoy watching my dog for a couple hours using my imagination. Obviously, a good film already has imagination put into it, sou you dont have to use your imagination too much.

- A glimpse of reality -
by RealityWhisper

Why the hell should we fuck your ass you horny gay rodent! go find yourself a guinea pig to get fucked with.

For the ones saying that animes sucks they are so stupid they dont know what they are missing. Anime is the futur of animation and only anime experiment the true values of real life not like some crap Disney show and american cartoon. I have benn watching anime for a long time and i saw the differences between good shows and crap canadian shows. So for the ones living in Japan there are so lucky.

Sure, I like anime. I also like some "American" cartoons (Simpsons and South Park), as some of you put it (that's a horrible stereotype). Either one is fine for their own reasons. Hmm... as for anime invoking imagination... how about doing something that actually does require imagination, like reading a book (no, not manga, I'm talking about a real book). Or, I don't know, maybe actually doing something with your life. By the way, how much imagination do you think it takes to cuss out someone for no apparent reason? Oh wait, that's right, absolutely none. It pretty much just shows lack of patience, imagination, intelligence, blah, blah. I'm sure you've heard this before, because you probably laugh every time someone says it to you, while thinking you're better than them because they "can't handle cuss words." Anyways, the point is, anime is good for some people, and not others, just like "American" cartoons. I guess it's just like drugs and religion, as well. I have no problem with either, as long as people don't overdo them or try to push them on me (like that other guy said). I guess I'm being a little hypocritical, though. I'm in a way trying to get people to actually be a little open minded with all this crap. If you want to blissfully ignore this, go right ahead. I don't know any of you, so I really don't care what you do (or don't do) with your lives.

I love eminem and anime and manga i made a manga with eminem in it but i burned so when he dies he'll see it and be happy!

respond to me i didnt finish my thing i alo have a shrine and a zigurat to anime in my closet i have one to eminem too but its not as big

I'm a big anime fan, been one for years, and I can tell you some anime really does suck. But alot of Westerners won't get that most of the classic anime and manga always have a hidden message of being in yourself, confidence, and survive beyond all odds. Take one of the real popular ones in DBZ. Yeah it has fights, stupid ole guru's trying to look up girl's dress at any cost. But the underline tone of the action series is that if you believe in yourself there is nothing that you cant probably overcome(goku). And also the lack of confidence (gohan) and the stupidity of being over zealous in yourself (vegeta ) are all represented. But what the problem is that it's a cartoon, not live actors/resses drowned in our brains by Hollywood PR's that the movie will be that spectular cause of them just being in it.

The comment of the big tittie girls - that's probably a comment made by the same person who help made Baywatch and Pamela 'very where plastic' Anderson such a worldwide success.

And trust me, I've seen way more storylines out of manga and anime than the trash Hollywood serves up these days as entertainment. The problem is that most westerners we associated cartoons too much with being a kid, and so everything that is animated is childish, and makes no sense,or is suppose to be beneath our highly matured minds.
Yeah right- remember baywatch.. I'll remember that when the hollywood studios show more forms of friends,ER or West Wing.

Hello it's me again? I have one thing to say about anime and its fans. I think anime is a religion. Judging by the crazy fans responses. Love your anime all you want. I'm still afraid of venturing into their territory for fear I'll adopt their madness. Oh my gawd that rabbit is foaming at the mouth. Your not going to win converts. I'm almost thinking about dumping anime all together because of the pyscho fans. Calm down it's just cartoons.
Anime=cartoons of the creepy kind.

I think that a lot of anime fans are crazy for it and seeing as some people used to worship or are worshipping anime right at this moment I believe they need mental help. I hate people like that! I mean,it's just anime! Calling it just a stupid cartoon is disrespecting it. A lot of people work their hearts out for what they do. But if you hate anime so much, I really think you need mental help, too. It's really inhumane to worship anime and keep going on about it and trying to speak japanese and so on, you are in desperate need for help. But then again, if you diss it with all your heart, go on blood-thirsty rampages to kill and destroy anime and it's fans, come on, you can't really hate it that much. Hell, hate it or love it all you like, 'cuz I don't give a fuck. And I'm just eleven! So this is what a little eleven year old anime fan has to say. So long, see you guys again later.

This is what I think and have observed having many friends who are otakus(Anime fans). I also consider myself a pretty big one.

Whats Wrong About Some Otakus

-Listening To J-Pop:
Ya okay i don't understand why people listen to it... sure okay i agree the Japanese language is more "beautiful" than english but why though? (Unless you know Japanese of course).

-Trying To Learn The Japanese Language For The Following Reasons: So they can watch untranslated shows or read untranslated manga, just because its the language of where anime originated, because their otaku friends are trying to.
O_o

-Most of all................. Wishing to be Japanese. I know many people who would die to be Japanese ............................................................................................................................ well yeah okay...

-Mebbe some other things i dunno...

Whats GOOD :) about Otakus (generally):

-The true Otakus are usually quiet. All the "true" Otakus I know are rarely loud and rowdy etc. I suppose its a otaku ettiquite (did i spell that right? O_o) of sorts. Also all the otakus i know all get goos marks in school, they're all pretty intelligent people.

-They are artistic. Whats wrong with drawing and expressing your feelings? It's fun.

-They have good imaginations... Well yeah anime takes alot of imagination to draw if you haven't noticed from cute little series like hello kitty to weird... weird things you see in hentai e.g tentatcles... well you know the rest (come on you know the weird things that happen in hentai HAVE to take a lot of imagination even if it is a sick one...

-Yeah a lot of other things but I'm too lazy too type... Mebbe later if I'm bored...

I also hafta add a few things...

American Style Cartoons I Approve Of: Anything by Matt Groening: C'mon its hilarious, Spongebob Squarepants: If you don't like it you should die, and a select little group of others...

The WORST american style cartoons: ANYTHING BY DISNEY: ... UGLY?, south park come on... its like just all shapes, anything else i didn't approve of ^_~...

AMERICAN STYLE ANIME SUCKS SO MUCH EVERY TIME I SEE IT I WANT TO PUNCH SOMEONE IN THE FACE. THIS INCLUDES TOTALLY SPIES AND BEYBLADES AND ZOIDS WHICH MAY NOT BE AMERICAN BUT THEY'RE EQUALLY AS UGLY AND POINTLESS...

Ya so okay i suggest you all join your local anime clubs and find an artistic hobby like drawing or writing stories for manga... unless your RealityWhisper or any other loser who came here to bad talk anime and otakus then in your case you can get raped in the face by some fat homo.

I totally agree with you. Then again, I agree with myself. Does anyone just see why Otakus love anime? They're absolutely sane. We like South Park and The Simpsons. I think were pretty normal. Don't you agree?

No.

Fuck off Jason. No, wait. You said something to me. I love you! Constuctive critisism! It may not be critisizing, but have you ever noticed how if you say cartoon over and over again it sounds really weird? Ooh, look at my hands . . . !

Not as weird as saying "hemoglobin" even once.

hee hee hee... HE-moe-glow-bin

Jason . . . how old are you? What's hemoglobin? Do you like Linkin Park? Eminem? Do you know my teacher? Hell, if you do I got a stalker . . . cool! But my hands ARE here no matter what you say because they're going to molest you! Hee, hee, hee . . . Jason . . . mmm.

And it's not cartoons!

Jason, can I say something? Call me the incredible fighting candy because whipped cream is good and it's even better if I lick it off you 'cuz I was just watching Dragonball Z oh yeah, the dragon must be mutated if it has 7 balls but that's not what I was going to say. I was going to say Buu was saying to Vegito that he wasn't going to chew him he was going to lick him to death. So that's where I got my idea from. I love you 'cuz you talked . . . and the incredible fighting candy is what the next episode is called. And Sailor Moon just got crushed under a giant cube.

I'm neither for nor against anime, for I have a small collection of movies/episodes. But anime IS cartoons. Just not stereotypical North American kiddie cartoons. I am frequently frustrated by those who claim that cartoons are for children. Aside from Hentai, anyone who has ever seen MTV's Downtown, Ninja Scroll, original Japanese uncensored Dragon Ball Z (yes the dragon is mutated) or John Calahan's Quads, would know that cartoons can be very much for adult.
- This is simply in defence of cartoons in general.

-Out

It's still disrespectful to call them cartoons. They don't deserve this punishment! Seriously, IS the dragon mutated? Ew . . .

I am an anime fan. So crucify me. I love Anime. I watch anime. I OWN many anime DVDs and manga comics. hell, I even walk around in a bright orange Rurouni Kenshin T-shirt. you know, i specifically searched on google for "anime sucks" to try and find an anti anime site with anything interesting or non stereotypical to say. I failed. what I did find was this: one that allows me to reply without creating an account. All these hate rants seem to consist of is one thing. Pidgeon holing.
Firstly, The Author's entire experience of anime seems to be sailor moon and pokemon. MOST die-hard anime fans wouldnt even waste their time with either of these shows, let alone be CAUGHT doing so. Try watching something involving and thought provoking (possibly even mature) like Gasaraki or Cowboy Bebop and then rethink your article. Secondly, not all anime fans are sad hentai drawing otaku freaks. in fact, these tend to be mainly the try hards who have only seen pokemon and DBZ, and want to prove they are experts. most of us are normal people, with a well hidden (but oversized) anime collection in their back room, which doesnt intrude into their social lives. My point? If I have one, it is that people should better inform themselves before starting hate rants, and maybe if you DONT know what you're talking about, S*T*F*U. im going to go start an argument

yeah ... i do like animes but stop!! not that kind of childish shit like Sailormoon or this fucking NGE or Akira shit!!! These movies make no sense and they are just bullshit. I just look animes which are on my opinion a good entertainment . Most of them are only for adults (not hentai) and are very bloody.

"im going to go start an argument"

Have fun.

I like Akira! Just 'cuz it'''s old don't mean it's bad . . . *sniffle* .

I like anime... yes I've seen all the crappy ones like pokemon, gayblade (-.-) and Hamtaro... (please someone shoot those fucking hamsters... ) And, yes before anyone points it out (again... ). I am aware that I have the name of a DBZ character in my username, why? because I like DBZ, you have to like at least one typical anime dont ya! *coughs* anywayz, I like anime! But not the little kiddy ones like Sailor moon, and pokemon. Im mainly into things like Cowboy Bebop, Vampire Hunter D, outlaw star e.g.

My point? Some animes suck and others don't. you can thank me for wasting five minutes of your life (twenty if your dyslexic...)
*BuuCandy* Making people swear since 1999

I hate anime now thanks to you psycho fans. Cartoon or Anime what's the damn difference. Its just ink and paint.
DBZ! Sailor Moon! make it stop! Make it stop!! Make it stop! I have tasted real entertainment and it is making fun of anime.

I'm making an anti Anime page particularly Anti DBZ.
Love your comments about anime it is crap!

You guys really need to see better anime than the ones that you are talking about. I am a huge anime fan and I can't see how anyone can hate it. There is so much anime that coould suit your needs. I don't have anything against people who hate anime it's just I can't stand it when people bad mouth it.

Don't insult what you can't comprehend.

I am a person that really enjoys anime, and I can understand
your viewpoints for a couple of reasons: 1) Since anime encompasses a huge amount of work, and many different styles, there are bound to be some (or many) that a given individual does not appreicate at all. Like you, I cannot stand to watch episodes of Sailor Moon nor Pokémon, but ruling out all anime just because of these specific examples is like deciding never to watch movies because you saw a few you didn't like. 2) Given that, most of the anime that IS brought to other countries and is given popular access (such as Cartoon Network in America) is pretty bad to many people (Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z are the prime examples). This discourages many from watching.

However, I am going to have to point out an oversight: many
animes, when translated, lose a lot of their value, and many sections (even entire episodes) are cut due to censors or other agencies. This can often lead to confusion on more complex series, as the anime will appear to make several rapid skips through what is supposed to be a linear plot. Subtitled anime is the easiest solution to this, but unfortunately is never shown on television (at least in the US).

Granted, as a newcomer to anime, little will make sense - especially
the facial expressions and such things such as sweat drops. Once more, however, these are essentially cultural cliches, much like how a japanese person would not understand certain physical expressions in our cartoons. Once you understand the significance of these devices, you can see that many animes do make more sense.

Also, for those that appreciate mind-bending philosophical
introspection, many animes are avaliable, and Evangelion comes to mind immediatly. If you appreciate nothing but sheer action, there are several animes to choose from. Comedy is abundent in anime, and there should be no trouble locating your particular brand of humor, given a trial and error process.

Essentially, the attitude you have towards anime determines
your enjoyment of it. If you begin to watch an anime with the attitude that it won't make any sense, and that it will be a total waste of time, IT WILL BE. Conversely, if you watch it with an open mind and an appreciating attitude, you can derive enjoyment from almost any anime.

And as for the people whose devotion to specific animes borders
on the religious: they are not the majority of anime fans, but they are the most noticeable. Ignore them - they are just like any other diehard fan of anything; whether it be a football team or a specific computer processor, these people can make a small issue seem ridiculous, and it is far better to simply not prompt them into an argument, nor is it a good use of time.

And as for hentai, not all fans of anime watch it, just as not
all people who watch television watch the playboy channel. Hentai truly is not a good thing to watch for any stable-minded individual, and the twists the japanese put on sex are terrifying. Just don't watch it.

Finally, I must disagree with your opinion of Anime artists.
Knowing several myself, they all started the same way - by imitating the art style of another animator, but then begin to create their own style (great painters have nearly always started their career by copying their master's style, and then moving on to their own. It is no different for another art form). True, most of the art has several similarities, such as eye proportion, but there are literally hundreds of unique styles. Sadly, most of those that come into America, at the least, are essentially two different styles (one with emphasis on large eyes and overproportioned bodies, and the other that has blocky, bulky bodies and very little attention to detail). I'm afraid that's all the time I have to write on this now.

I totally agree! Anime sucks! ALOT! I mean, I don't go around giving people crap about it or anything but, IT IS SO STUPID!
What really sucks is that I'm the only one in my group of friends who despises it! You know that old saying, 'If you can't beat them, join them'? How about NOT! Whatever, I'll just have to endure the pointless crap. Oh, get this, one of my friends said that it was realistic!!! I DON"T THINK SO!

I understand where your coming from. After all, Sailor Moon, Pokemon, DBZ, and a lot of the other anime's shown on Cartoon Network, WB, Fox, and other stations really do suck but it's not on the fault of the japanese. After all each creator has there own distinct style when writing a story. I've heard many times how the subbed version is better and sometimes I can actually agree with animes such as Card Captor Sakura. What I think you anime haters do not seem to understand is that stuff like pokemon is for people under 10 years old. Of course it's going to seem childish to you!!!! It doesn't mean you should back mouth all anime though especially if the only experience in anime you have are the crappy dubs they put on tv in the 80's such as Thundercats or the american cartoons GIJOE, Silverhawks, and the Super Friends who had equally cheezy dialouge as well as bad animation. You say that anime doesn't make sense to you, well if you've seen only one or two episodes like in the middle of the series of course it's going to be confusing to you.

For example the first time Gundam Wing aired on Cartoon Network I didn't really want to give it a chance. I thought it was just another robot thing like Robotech or something but when I decided to give it a chance I came in around the middle of the series and I was so confused cause I couldn't tell the good guys from the bad guys until I watched it through from the beginning. Also there are some animes that aren't supposed to have much plot but in a sense to make you think more about life. In Neon Genesis Evangelion for example, if you pay attention to the serious depression, and hurt Shinji goes through throughout the series and in someway you can remember that sometime or another you've felt that way at one time. Maybe you were suicidal because you were always alone, maybe you didn't know how to cope with the negative things people said to you.....but it's not about seeing the emotion of the character because throughout Evangelion Shinji grew from someone who hated himself and everyone around him, to someone who learned that not everybody hates you and in a sense there is an importance to living and that each separate life has a specific meaning. If that sounds crazy or confusing to you then maybe your the ones who need help.

Of course there are many people who are obsessed with anime heck I've seen them and I really don't like them much. Although these obsessive, religious cult type members you mention are the ones who love Sailor Moon, DBZ, and Pokemon. These people are just plain nuts where they'll scowl at you if you try joking about it or they'll just get right in your face and try to do the kamehameha on you. These people I just have to say two words "Grow Up" It is just a cartoon after all just drawings but it's the fact that japanese cartoons aren't slapstick humor like your average american cartoons except for those few where the girls whack guys across the face with mallets or make funny expressions and you can't say that you don't find it funny all the time because I'am sure that sometime you've laughed at those goofy little things.

I may be a serious anime fan, but at least it's not a part of my life. You say that ALL anime fans should go out and read. Well where should I start I've read many classic novels such as Pride and Prejudice, Lord of the Rings, Wuthering Heights (Worst book ever do not by any means read it believe me you'll thank me for it), Sherlock Holmes, Steven King heck this list could go on for hours and then you go and say that anime fans aren't educated I'll have you know that many anime fans get good marks in school me, my girlfriend, and my friends who are all anime fans have recieved very high grades and are fairly intelligent after all not everyone centers their life on anime which you people blindly think is true. We also enjoy many american cartoons such as Simpsons, South Park, Invader Zim, Spongebob, Ed Edd and Eddy, Johnny Bravo, and Dexters Lab. So don't go saying that all anime fans are not well rounded unless you can prove your facts with sufficient evidence and when I say sufficient I don't mean your opinions I mean actual facts.

It's just so hard to believe how people who are against something don't have very much background on the subject and I've seen it alot especially through my time in the Star Wars VS Star Trek debates where I could just laugh at the absurdity of people thinking they knew what they were talking about when they weren't and this isn't any different. I don't think any of you so called anime haters really have a clue why we anime fans enjoy anime and why we love to watch it. It's not a cult or a way of life. It's something we find fun and entertaining. Hey do you see anime fans knocking sports and so forth heck I could go on and on about how I think sports suck because they're long, boring, and a waste of brain matter but I'm not going to get into that. I also don't like the fact that you anime haters think that fans love anime because of girls with giant breasts that's just really stupid. I have seen many anime fans and not once have I seen them drooling over girls with big breasts in anime and I don't either I think you're just stereotyping along with the fact that you people think that every anime is about mercenaries.....oh please sure that's a popular thing for the more violent and RPGish kinds of anime but that isn't all anime you know.

Plus anime can be just as good as any book or movie it just depends on how you act going into it as one person said if you go into it thinking that this will be a waste of time that's what it will be; if you go into it with an open mind then you will find enjoyment and sure maybe books can make you use your imagination more but anything truly good can do that as well.

I'm neutral when it comes to this issue so I really don't cfare what any of you think. I'm just sick of you people stereotyping me and other anime fans as being obsessive nobody's with no lives. A lot of us do and the more you back mouth us I have to really wonder is it the fans or the haters who are the real immature ones.

If you want to see what I mean about good anime types out there try real ones such as Fushigi Yuugi, Inu-Yasha, Ranma 1/2, Excel Saga, Cowboy Bebop, Yu Yu Hakesho, and Lupin believe me these are the ones worth seeing not the Drag-onball Z crap people watch

To fit along with the already lame titles like Coyboy Bebop, Dragonball, Neon Genesis, and whatever other lame titles we've no doubtedly thought up, I've decided to create my own Anime series. I think I'll call it... Rangler Testicle Toothpaste Gasoline Z. Seems to fit.

Subject: Anime...
By: Star Child Time: November 18, 2002 5:03 PM Don't insult what you can't comprehend.

---My reply...don't make stupid comments like this...it takes NO brain power to watch or think about Japanime even if the story is quote deep un quote.
Its not so much as ANIME, its the dang FANS for god sake! Look at what you type! What does being gay and calling someone a rodent screwer have to do with defending Japanese cartoons? NOTHING!

I just goes to show your so obessed with something that you'll say and do anything to get it.

Subject: Anime...
By: Me Mania Time: November 10, 2002 2:03 AM AMERICAN STYLE ANIME SUCKS SO MUCH EVERY TIME I SEE IT I WANT TO PUNCH SOMEONE IN THE FACE. THIS INCLUDES TOTALLY SPIES AND BEYBLADES AND ZOIDS WHICH MAY NOT BE AMERICAN BUT THEY'RE EQUALLY AS UGLY AND POINTLESS...

---Your so called American Style Anime comment is wrong...if you bothered to look up on it, Totally Spies is a French cartoon, made in France (wow the connection!)
Beyblades is like any other dueling game in Japan...make lovable characters, get money, make more useless products, and give rights to dub it too as many countries as possible.

Personally I liked Totally Spies, it wasn't over played and the characters had a more realistic personality (valley)

What is the point of calling Pokemon a Cartoon and Cowboy Bebop an Anime...what side of the brain do you think with?
::puts on her Pro Disney pin::

I cannot stand this "real anime" crap from new otakus -_- GOD strike them down!!
And all these other peoples comments saying 'you know a lot about it to hate it' or 'wow you like it and hate it at the same time your dumb' Oh wow like having a neutral opinion about something is wrong and difficult? Is it that hard for you fans to grasp on to the topic and realize, SailorMoon and Pokemon were used as examples of this topic? ::waits a beat:: Guess not

I happen to be a fan of Japanese anime......but not so obsessive that whatever comes from Japan is automatically wonderful. There are some VERY bad apples (i.e. Sailor Moon *shudder*, Dragonball Z, Gundam Wing) which require a vaccuum inside one's head to comprehend and continue watching after a few minutes, some apples that aren't too bad tasting but you get sick of after a while (i.e. Pokémon, Card Captor Sakura) which require a bit of imagination to be appreciated/enjoyed and are for children, and you have the good apples (i.e. Evangelion, which I as a fan I feel obligated to defend) which requires intelligence to understand and are so intensely philosophical and presents views so opposing to what the media force-feeds us that for most it would be very hard to appreciate. So you have a variety of cartoons to choose from, a fan of Sailor Moon would have no chance of understanding Evangelion and fans of Evangelion have a tendency of puking at the thought of Sailor Moon. And if you're only exposed to the variety of anime that doesnt appeal to you....then anime looks pretty pathetic (believe me, I used to hate anime too).

Yes the graphics are overdone, but that seems to be a cultural thing, and if you can look beyond that and pay more attention to what is happening rather than how it looks, perhaps anime might seem a little better (unless you try it with Sailor Moon or similar).

But that's just my opinion, and I am very biased towards Evangelion, I don't have the patience to go into why and no doubt neither do you.......no offense to fans of Sailor Moon, it's just a personal vendetta

I just don't understand it, why do anime haters judge anime fans as being "obsessed." The only ones I see obsessed with anime are the ones who WOULD go and completely degrade a person in order to make themselves feel good. c'mon these people are just immature and there are possibly a lot of anime lovers who can be mature. I've seen a few of them when it comes to this argument and still anime haters go on and on and on dragging out the same old argument that anime is childish and that all fans are nothing but obsessive, whiny, little brats. gee I'm really sure that makes you feel good huh? To actually degrade people to make your own views known and then you don't really appreciate or respect the other sides opinions you just go and tear them to pieces as well. That's what makes me hate anime haters. But at least I can respect their views no matter how biased they truly are. Believe it or not, animes like Evangelion can help you to think about important stuff like life, personal goals, and the very emotions such as hate, anger, and fear which can drive a person to the brink of insanity. Think what you like, but Evangelion has that psychological tendency to make you think, where animes like Excel Saga are good ones to watch if you want to see something that will make you laugh so hard that you'll be gasping for air after a few minutes. Then there's animes like Ranma, Inu-Yasha, and Fushigi Yuugi which can not only be serious, but comical as well IF you can enjoy slapstick.

Other then that hey who am I to judge, I can't change your life but I'm just voiceing my opinions and well that's all that really matters in this argument. Even though that if you would see a serious otaku, they would like more then anime, heck sometimes you would probably see them watch stuff like the simpsons, or south park, or even sitcoms like friends and seinfeld. But then again you can live in your little world where all otaku are nothing but anime obsessors if that makes you happy, as for me I'm going to live my life doing things my way. After all that is the way life is to be truly lived whether its being with your friends or watching your favorite tv show. Life is about living your own personal life to the fullest extent. Even though I know for a fact that opinions can be changed just do people a favor and don't judge them especially if you don't really know all anime fans.

and that's all I have to say

Nice try Octagon. That was almost a well reasoned argument. A few more trips through the spelling and grammar checker and it would almost be a coherent argument too.

"and that's all I have to say"

No it isn't. Like many anime fans, you can't let it go. That's what makes you obsessed. You're the one who can't live with the opinions of others. You'd much rather justify your viewing habits and maybe try to convince us of the cultural superiority of whatever it is you like to watch.

I regularly read opinions I don't agree with. I regularly see things I like insulted. Do I write horribly misspelled and grammatically challenged little diatribes to the persons making such statements? Nope, I move along, not giving a damn. Unlike you, I realize it won't make a difference anyway, even if I cared so much.

Now, will you learn your lesson and stop writing to defend anime? Doubt it.

I don't like Akira.

If you say so, I was just voicing my opinions. You can think whatever the hell you want because I know that I’m not able to make a difference in anyone’s thoughts but at least I give an effort and so far all I’ve seen from you anti-anime fanboys was one thing

“Anime sucks!”

Is that your only claim, that and your little need to say everyone who likes it is obsessed. Well let’s see if I were really obsessed I wouldn’t be discussing this with you nicely. I’d probably either cuss you out like a large number of people from the pro-anime side and the anti-anime side. Or I just wouldn’t waste my time on the Internet because it would take away from my “precious” anime. I can live with your opinions, I can even tolerate them but as an anime fan, I won’t be insulted by people whose only examples of anime were either from over ten years ago or the stuff shown on the WB. If that doesn’t get through that thick skull of yours to whatever amount of brain matter you have, you would have seen from my posts that I do respect the other sides arguments but please do better then this:

“Anime sucks cause I say so!”

or this:

“Anime sucks because I don’t really watch it but everyone I see who is a fan is a walking, talking, obsessive anime zombie so that must mean it’s bad!”

or even this:

“Anime people have no lives, they won’t ever amount to anything because their stupid.”

That’s my point; with arguments like the ones I’ve stated above can I in anyway respect those people. Hell I don’t support the pro-anime fans who cuss and consider it a main part of their lives, but when you think about it who’s bringing out the better argument? Anime-haters have no proof whatsoever that anime sucks. Just because the fans who are probably freshmen in high school act that way does not mean that all anime fans are. Anyway, I could respect your comments Jason but the fact that you resort to mindless name calling just proves how pointless your argument was. Keep trying and maybe one day you’ll actually have a decent argument.

Well Jason if you really moved on with other people's opinions like you said, then why are you still defending how bad anime is? So I'm guessing your not "unlike" me after all.

Ah, thank you for proving my point Octagon. I knew you would.

You. Can't. Let. It. Go.

And then you have the nerve to wrote "Well let’s see if I were really obsessed I wouldn’t be discussing this with you nicely." If you weren't really obsessed you wouldn't be discussing this with me at all.

"Well Jason if you really moved on with other people's opinions like you said, then why are you still defending how bad anime is?"

The latter half of your sentence is open to interpretation. One such interpretation is "Why are you defending anime's decision to be bad?" I'll assume you meant "Why are you still defending the theory that anime is bad?" And if you read my post, you'll realize that I didn't. I was making a point about anime fans, and you helped back it up (again, thank you).

And thank you for making an effort to include better grammar and spelling. You didn't quite make it, but keep trying (and I know you will, because you're obsessed).

Before you write back saying that I'm the obsessed one, be advised that I am doing this solely for my own amusement.

In fact, let's go a bit further. I am playing Devil's Advocate here. I repeat, Devil's Advocate. I am working on the theory that anime fans are so uncomfortable and easily provoked that the second anyone writes or says anything anti-anime, from a stupid "anime sux ass" to a reasoned argument about why they feel it's an inferior form of animation and story telling, anime fans MUST respond with large, badly-spelled missives that accomplish nothing, no matter how well thought out (well thought out ones being rare). I have yet to meet an anime fan who said "Huh. He doesn't like anime. Oh well." Every last one of them just had to defend it, or worse, try to convince me that all anime wasn't Dragon Gonadz Z. You're the Jehovah's Witnesses of the animation scene.

Ok, let's repeat that in plain terms, minus the *INSULTS CLEARLY DESIGNED TO GET A RISE OUT OF YOU*. You can't win this argument because my only goal is to prolong it, and if that happens, my point is underscored. And trust me, it takes me no effort to do this. I'll I need to do is type "Neon Argon Genesis Exodus Revelation Aardvark Evangaleo aye ee aye oh is gay" and away you'll go.

What, let's go even further, and let me tell you how you can win this game.

"Strange game. The only winning move is not to play." -Joshua, "War Games"

There you go Octagon, the way out. But my guess is you won't take it. You'll want to tell me how this is just my effort to squash your opinion, freedom of speech, how I'm the loser for starting this in the first place, whatever.

You. Can't. Let. It. Go.

Prove me wrong.

I don't like Akira.

I really don't care; you can think what you want. Out of all the arguments I've heard in this stupid, pointless arguments I think I respect yours the most but hey who am I to say anything I'm just an "obsessed" anime fan who probably doesn't have a clue on how your obvious "superior" brain works. Are you mocking me because I'm not getting outraged like everyone else? Or is it because I'm on the opposite side of your views? Second of all do you really think I give a damn about Dragayball Z? I mean for gods sake man, only kids would actually like that show. Can't you see how pointless your being in this argument as well? You are being just as obsessed about being right as I'am and you just can't stand the fact that I haven't cussed you out yet like possibly every other anime fan thats come up against you.

In other words, I could care less whether you think anime sucks or not. I'm allowed to put my stance and reasons to why I support anime and I'm willing to defend them, after all this is a debate right? You may be thinking that I'm trying to make a point, but in reality I'm just arguing for the sake of it. I find it rather funny that you think I'm trying to beat you in this argument. Hell grow up man, it’s not a life or death situation if you're right or not. Can't you just have fun with this instead of trying to be right all the time? That’s why people resort to cussing, they want to be right so much that they'll resort to petty name calling and all out raving just to prove a point and when I see these kinds of people I really wonder how stupid these people actually are that they can't speak intelligently on a simple subject.

If you must know, I respect the ones who bring out good points such as animation, story-line, or even the creators who made it. That proves intelligence to actually bring proof to the argument and that this person really makes a lot of sense. You want to know where it gets bad well let’s see. When a person says either:

"Anime suxs cause it for kids, and I be an intelligent person who likes to watch WWE wrestling."

Or a person like this:

"All you anime lovers are a bunch of &^%&ers, you wouldn't know good tv if it kicked you in the @$$ and took a $%&* on your head. So &%^@ off mother %&^$^%"

Believe it or not the same could be said for the people who love anime as well. Oh but I'm sure you'll come and say stuff like:

"You're wrong Octagon, anime haters never act like that only the obsessed anime lovers do cause their a cult who's obsessed with anime obsessions"

Say what you want, I don't really care. You expected me to respond so I did. It has nothing to do with anime anymore it seems like it has gone to which side is more extreme. So I'll just go back to playing Metroid Prime and leave you to wallow in your anger and hatred for every anime fan especially me.

Well you also forgot one thing; I'm not pro anything in this argument. I'm neutral because there is an equal amount of anime that I love and hate. Just because I'm not biased like you are means nothing to me. I could argue with you for as long as you want, or at least until I get bored of seeing the same arguments from you. You amuse me, to think that you actually believe that I'm trying to beat you. Another thing, you seem to be set on thinking that I'm obsessed with anime just because I like anime. So by breaking down what you keep telling me. You're saying I'm just an obsessed anime fan who won't stop saying that anime is the coolest thing on the planet...uh no, you see anime is not the coolest thing on the planet. It’s merely a form of entertainment. I enjoy watching it more then American cartoons because I dislike many American made cartoons. Not because they're American but because most of them are pretty stupid. The only ones that are "good" American cartoons are The Simpsons, Futurama, Any of the cartoon, cartoons on cartoon network, Anything on Toon Disney, and Invader Zim on Nickelodeon. So you keep going on and on saying how I don't watch anything but anime and that I'm so obsessed with the stuff that I won't let this subject go. I already put my arguments up on my first post. I'm just having fun now and I must say seeing you mad like this is a lot of fun.

"Judge not lest ye be judged"

Think about that quote for a moment and see how you're acting. Man if anything I'm glad I don't act like you. If I did I'd be ashamed

This is so much fun!

"I really don't care; you can think what you want."

Thank you for your generous permission to think what I want, Mr. I Really Don't Care Even Though I Posted Three Responses.

I'll repeat that. You are so comfortable in your opinions and so utterly uninterested in this argument that you POSTED THREE RESPONSES. Well, Mr. Otacon, during a discussion with a third party about this thread I stated my belief that you could not let it go and would write back. The third party agreed. Little did we know that you were so irked by all this that you had to post three, count 'em, three responses, even though you "could care less whether you think anime sucks or not."

By the way, it's "couldn't care less." "Could care less" means that you aren't totally indifferent, and do in fact care somewhat. Of course, you're actually unintentionally correct here, because you do care a great deal.

"Are you mocking me because I'm not getting outraged like everyone else?"

First, I think you are getting outraged (a wee reminder: THREE posts). But no, I am mocking you because you deny possessing the traits that mark too many anime fans, even though you demonstrate them often. Namely:

1. Inability to say "So what" and move on when confronted with someone who doesn't like anime. If you were smart, you would have read that article, thought "I don't agree with this guy" and then moved on to surfing for some porn or something. I'll let you in on a little secret. That article was written partially to piss off anime lovers and get them to write in. For someone reason people think it will all go away if they just give a bunch of reasons why they think Japanese animation is better than American animation.
2. Being snobbish about "your" anime vs. "their" anime. You took the time to slam Dragon Ball Z in one of your posts. This is classic anime fan behavior. "Yes, those guys that like Show X are sure a bunch of losers, unlike me who loves Show Y." Be sure to list all the reasons you like Show Y, even though I don't care and have said so. I would have been much more impressed if you had said "I don't particularly like Dragon Ball Z" instead of calling it "Dragayball Z." That makes you as bad as those evil racist anime haters who spend every waking moment plotting its demise that you seem to think exist (Boy, those shows that conform to every anime sterotype are sure annoying when you're trying to argue the merits of anime, aren't they?). Which brings us to: 3. A tendency to assume that people who bash anime spend every moment of their lives hating it. It's disliked once, then it's indifference forever. Only when anime fans come around with the Gospel According to Ghost in the Shell does the disliking resurface. "I'll just go back to playing Metroid Prime and leave you to wallow in your anger and hatred for every anime fan especially me." Don't flatter yourself. The people and things I hate have done their part to earn that hate, and anime lovers are going to have to do more than be annoying to get it. 4. A masochistic desire to convert people to anime, or defend it when there clearly is no point. "If you must know, I respect the ones who bring out good points..." Actually, I *don't* must know. You're the kind of person who would go up to a member of the KKK and say "You know, racism is wrong" and expect them to suddenly see the light. 5. The complete inability to spot the above behaviors in oneself.

"Can't you see how pointless your being in this argument as well?"

Yes, I can. In fact, in my previous post I told you that my only purpose here is to prolong the argument. You either didn't understand or you are so far gone that you just can't resist trying to put me in my place. I thought I made it clear, but apparently not, so here it is again: I think you're the sort of person who can't see the futility of this. So I am doing this just to see how far I can string you along. Everything you read here is designed for the express purpose of getting you to respond and thus proving me correct. You keep writing anyway, much to my merriment. You can prove me wrong at any time by not writing three posts that tell me you don't care.

"Another thing, you seem to be set on thinking that I'm obsessed with anime just because I like anime."

Noooo, I think you're obsessed with defending anime to strangers on the Internet. Did you even read my last post? And have you yet to clue in to the fact that that every time you write to tell me you're not obsessed with defending it kinda weakens your argument?

"You may be thinking that I'm trying to make a point, but in reality I'm just arguing for the sake of it."

Oh, you're arguing for the sheer intellectual exercise, I see. You aren't trying to get me to change my views or shame me at all. Then why did you write:

"Judge not lest ye be judged." Seems kind of a harsh thing to say for a friendly debate, isn't it? Are you sure it's not getting under your skin, just a little bit? Just about, oh, three posts worth?

Quoting the Bible at me. Sorry, it didn't cause me to fall down on my knees and repent, but of course you're not really trying to beat me here, you're just arguing for the sake of it, right? So, if we want to play dueling quotations, I'm game. You quoted Matthew 7:1. Now permit me to quote Matthew 7:2, which immediately follows the line you quote in the King James Bible:

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

People quote Matthew 7:1 in an effort to say "Don't judge others." Well, I guess we'd better abolish the legal system then. In order to get around that obvious oversight 7:2 clearly says "You will be judged by the same standards that you apply to others." In other words, you CAN judge people, you just can't be hypocritical about it.

So, applying that to this situation, I am accusing you of being obsessed, which is fine if I am not equally obsessed. You claim I am obsessed with a hatred of you and anime, but it isn't true. I quite simply do not go to bed at night muttering "Otacon." As I explained before, this is an experiment to see if you'll catch on, and decide to use your time more productively.

Here's a quote for you. "Notes on Nationalism" by George Orwell. A fine writer, one I highly recommend checking out:

"It is difficult if not impossible for any nationalist to conceal his allegiance. The smallest slur upon his own unit, or any implied praise of a rival organization, fills him with uneasiness which he can only relieve by making some sharp retort."

I don't like Akira. And I'm betting you'll write back.

Anime exists ONLY because the Japanese KNOW American will shell out huge wads of cash for anything with the Rising Sun slapped on it. Stupid people will love it only because Japan is a "trendy" thing. Pokemon, and the other "kiddie" shows are just horrible on all accounts (animation, plot, voice acting), and even those who consider themselves fans of the genre admit it. But movies such as "Akira" are also just the same garbage in a different bag. This is just another action movie, only animated. People gawk and say, "Hey look! The cartoon is bleeding! Yeah, cooool!" One may also boast that the animation is better than most. While it may be better than the old Scooby-Doo shorts, it really is not that spectacular. More complex-looking animation is really just three or four cells being cycled, giving it the horrid, jerky motion that is present in all anime; overall, it end up with less than half the framerate of other animation styles, giving the animator more time for detail.

Who knew that people could feel so passionately about such a mundane topic as anime? (I do realise I have previously posted a comment in defense of anime). As a spectator drawn here by yet another anime comment on the sidebar, I am rather amused. A new, unmentioned point amongst the previous comments is a rare occurence, most of the defense for anime is merely an equal and opposite (speaking in terms of words and meanings that is) statement, while anime haters repeat the same original arguements. And, even being a fan of *some* anime, I have to admit that the anime haters' arguments have considerably more weight, because the arguments presented/reiterated are the orginal arguments and they aren't being forced to rebut. Have you all done high school debating? Do you really think the Negative Team is going to beat the Affirmative Team if all they do is rebut the same points over and over? Come on, anime fans, make these guys sweat. The audience wants action. The mud you're slinging is drying up.

To close: Has no-one anything to add to this debate? Has no-one (other than Jason) a rational argument to contribute? (By the way, Jason, you are good). This is just going round in circles. Circles may not be squares, but they're just as boring as any other regular two-dimensional shape.

Thankyou for your time and the short-lived entertainment.

-Isha

"By the way, Jason, you are good"

Thanks Isha. You are too kind.

"This is just going round in circles."

All part of my cunning plan. There is only one person who can defeat me, and I told him how to do it. Now all that remains is to see whether he realizes this, or if he spins the circle one more time.

Leaving comments on a comment system!?!?! OMG!!!!

Hey, that piece of turd of a soccer cartoon you didn't remember the name of is called Captain Tsubasa. It's probably the most obnoxious, boring, idiotic cartoon I've ever seen. Shit, even The Smurfs have more of a dramatic effect than this piece of crap.

It has been two weeks since Otacon last replied to one of my posts. While in an ordinary debate, my apparent "getting in the last word" would mean my victory, but not in this case. As stated in those posts, I was deliberately provoking Otacon and anime fans, not about anime, but about themselves. Otacon has learned not to take the bait.

Congratulations, Otacon. Your not responding makes you the first anime fan I've ever encountered who said "Eh, fuck it" and moved on. Silence sends a better message than your posts ever could.

So in a way I have been beaten, yet in another way, everyone wins. A job well done I think. Now let us prepare for the next anime fan who thinks he's the Manga Messiah.

Congrats again,

Jason

Oh crud! Was my username too revealing? (As if everybody doesn't already know. . .)
Having read about 1/4 of these posts along with the last comment, I feel so...well, like I'm right back where I started, alone and typing in the dark waiting for something to happen because I'm such a fanboy that I have 0 friends and I'm really sucking today in BattleNet trying to win at least once in Warcraft III. Maybe later I'll do some other really otaku-ish thing like read a novel or make some scripts for Never Winter Nights, or maybe I'll make a sandwich, DO YOU REALLY CARE? I certainly don't care about your opinions. Really I don't. I only read this all because, well, I'm a completle and utter hypocrite, and an insane one to boot. Seeing as how most of this page makes little sense, I felt I should add to the chaos.(Please note that I am not mocking anyone, I am complementing you because I think a little chaos goes a long way.) Allow me to paralell some stupid things for you. 1. People think that being social and having a life (with others) is vital to happiness and being a 'good' person. 2. People who are intelligent and introverted will find atypical ways to amuse themselves. 3. People who don't understand each others will be compelled into some type of hostility towards each others. 4. Every different thing is pretty stupid from each idiot's viewpoint. 5. I am a huge idiot. 6. By putting myself down I make it that much harder for anyone else's verbal assault to effect me. 7. I don't like how this list is turning out. 8. So I will continue listing things at random untill this form stops me. 9.I just remembered som really long posts, and I don't think I can list for that long, becuase I'm bored and hungry. 10. Too bad for me I', to lazy to get off my ass and eat something. 11. My e-mail adress is not: n0tare4laddress@noaddress.not 12. I hope people actually read upto this part, but not the rest of it. It's crap. 13. Crap. 14. I told ya. 15. Do you hate this post yet? 16. If you hate it and you know it, clap your hands! 17. Hahhaha I kill me. 18. Seriously, This post is what happens when you watch too much Excel Saga. 19. I copmletly understood that series. 20. I think I'll stop now. 21. Couldn't resist sorry. 22. Is this gag getting like, really old, like older than when you asked your mommy 'why' and she like, answered 'because'? 23. Anime doesn't suck, it doesn't have a mouth! 24. (Insert lame comment, followed by philisophical discussion on how the world is composed of lame comments, followed by random quote, followed by religious tie-ins.) 25. THE END

I do not like turnips. <--(This here is an attempt to instigate some more argu-*ahem* debates from any anime-lovers who are also turnip lovers.)

(I also secrectly wish wish to NOT mock mock everyone here for the purposes of my own amusement. (I also secrectly amuse myself by other means))(Fortunatly for me these brackets emphasise the point that I'm whispering, meaning that you'll only be able to read this if you have really good hearing.(Actually I'm not really that stupid, although I wish wish I was was.)(I am however stupid enough to gain enjoyment by this very activity, because it is so much much fun. At least it is for me, becuase I'm amusing myself at the same time.)) <--INTENDED PUN~! This post has a secrect message in it. The first letters of each tenth word spell out a a a a a a a a secret communique from you to you. I am also not dutch. Please excuse my lack of trying to correct all the mistakes I purposely misplaced in this post. If you have found my secret message, please, post your address in this thread and I will send you 25 calling card, with which you can call someone.Now I must bid you adieu... (I'll be back, you know it..)
(Insert snappy yet mysterious username here) Thank you, and Good night.

I just added this page to my favorites and I just thought I'd let everyone in the whole world who actually visits this site know. Thx >:?)

I hate anime. used love it. But anime fans act like elitist assholes. they think they're smarter than you because they like anime. Anime is stupid. Boring and retarded. 90% of anime is recycled animation and purdy stills. While I'm at it. Anime sucks. Dubs suck,Subs suck what's the fucking difference. It's not like the animation or the show's quality is lessened or improved by the voice overs.

This is stupid! Wasting your damn time on a bunch of bullshit.

They really do, actually. i like turnips sliced on chili, but that's all.

bannanas are headed for extinguishment or extinction because they're sexless and prone to diseases. Biotech will save them. This is an example of how technology is better than sex, better than nature.

Technology asexualized bannanas in the first place, it might as well come to their rescue again.

I've always thought that bannanas were better than sex, anyway. At least, once I've finished a bannana, I don't have to watch the clock wonderig how long it will take it to figure out that it's time for it to get dressed, go back to its home, and leave me blissfully alone.

KittD KittD you are so right. Anime fans and their religious devotion to anime has totally turned me off to fandom and all things Anime. I never liked DBZ but I have met SM fandom's venom because I loved the DIC version. Anime fans are real scary when it comes to their object of worship no offense to sane anime fans. They'll curse you if you called Sailor Moon "Serena" or any of the senshi by their dubbed names. Gasp and I thought fans of the so-calledsophisticated animation would act more mature. BRRRRR. Thanks KittD KittD. I thought I was the only one who felt that way.

Personally I think you put it better then I did ^^
Ever see a converted SMoon fan? Now that's scary, they fell in love with the DIC version, then as soon as they got the fansubs -_-;; yesh, at least one hate DIC page everywhere!

There are some that liked DIC for getting them started on SMoon and still like the original better, but at least they don't go spastic. Even fansubbers like the dub over the original half the time, but people are people- different opinions.

Even I still like the DIC dub, though I think CWI pulled it off better, I wasn't even surprised or bothered Amara ((which I prefer to call her cause I like the name)) and Michelle became cousins in the TVdub. It just made more sense, I'm sure DIC would have made them sisters and cut half the dialogue and scenes they were in! IMO

Is it me, or do you notice that animes people seen fansubbed/raw and that lost interest in it over time- have dead sites/shrines that will magically come back when they find out its being dubbed? I mean its obvious they have some deep hate for dubbing or they wouldn't even bother with it. Sad really. Then after the dubbing is off the TV...the sites die again -_- man.

This is a calm rant lol

Oh yeah, this kid IM'd me (14)
and just thought to inform me after I posted something on a message board. his intro to me--"anime is not cartoons, you are wrong"

::rollseyes:: I told him after I asked his age, since he is young of course he's going to think only Japan can make anime, that anything with large eyes and colorful hair is Japans made; then he said I was shallow minded and called me a bitch. Very mature, you can tell when someone can't feel wrong cause they defend themselves with any words not necessary.
My sig in a message board is Anime=Animation=Cartoons Its mostly anime fans who are 12-15 that have something to say about, and I don't mind that, only thing that bugs me is they call themselves Otaku! Watching one fansub, and 2 anime DVDs on its original format does not make you an Otaku...I still wonder why people bother to say they are one no matter how many animes they watch.

I have to be honest, I do like Anime, but I'm not some hardcore fan like millions in the US today. Anime is cool to watch for entertainment when you got nothing else to do. But when you make it your "God", that's just going over the edge. Like I said, I like Anime, but it's the Anime freaks that actually exist out there that made Anime so overated. I've seen A LOT of those stupid annoying "Otakus" when I was in high school. Ha ha the word "Otaku" doesn't even Anime Fanatic. There was a Japanese language teacher that works at my old high school, and he said Otaku means "Geek or Nerd". Damn I totally agree! I didn't even had to ask him what it means. I could of just tell just by looking at those pathetic no life losers. Pretty common sense man! I don't mean to hate on them, well they are Human...in a way. But still, they annoy the HELL out of me. They're just stupid retards who took Anime as their religion and purpose in life. Non-Japanese Otakus STRIVE HARD to be a wannabe Japanese person. How pathetic is that! There was a couple of girls I saw in high school, who were straight up Anime Freak. Ironically, almost everyone in school know who they are, because of the way they act and look. Pretty "different" from everyone else living in reality. These retarded females would TRY to dress like them Anime character like almost everyday! Your typical SHORT ASS skirt, dyed hair--Blue, Pink, Purple, Orange, Red... stupid Sailor Moon backpacks... Oh yeah worst of all, they TRY to speak fluent Japanese. They be taking Japanese language class at school, not for enlightenment or education, but so they can understand Japanese dubbed Anime! C'mon! These girls aren't even Japanese! Also what I realized about the way female Anime freaks in general make the tone of their voice so damn annoying! They would "TRY" to make their voices so freaking high pitch so they can imitate their favorite Anime characters. And YES they do this also even when they have normal conversation. I could go on but I don't wanna start gaging in front of the computer. Aite, to all you Anime Freaks/Retards/Otakus, or whatever, out there, if you AIN'T Japanese, or/and if you are made out of flesh and blood...not paper and ink, then start acting like the way God made all of you! Get back to reality...there is a BIG world out there besides Anime. And for those who made Anime their "soul purpose" in life, you guys can all go to hell!

Payce out....

There are some that liked DIC for getting them started on SMoon and still like the original better, but at least they don't go spastic. Even fansubbers like the dub over the original half the time, but people are people- different opinions.

Don't know if that thing can Italic but I put the wrong word.

I meant FAN DUBBERS (not fansubbers), I like these people, they can see the good and bad for BOTH versions of Dub and Original anime...I wish there were more of them.

Wow, leave it to the editor in chief to hit the hottest topic since "arranged marriages"

at current count: 4867 visits!

Leandro: perhaps you should think about a subsite dedicated to anime loathing.

Im curious though, since you have the abillity to find this stuff out, are these random google hits or is there a common thread tween CoN subbers?

<3
REVSCRJ

I agree totally, i myself love some anime but like 95% or more of it is shit, just like i hate american cartoons but there are some good ones it the same with everything. The problem is hardcore anime fans seem to think all anime kicks ass even though theyve maybe seen two episodes of pokemon 5 of dbz and like 10 salior moons ( which i think are all shit)

I don't entirely hate anime. It is the very reason I wanted to be an animator. I'm not some freak who worships all things Japanese. Not all into Anime anymore. Love the style; too bad so many bad things have spawned from anime. Such as Internet and studio based Hentai which is made mostly by perverts with too time on their hands. If my mom knew that she would never let watch me anime. Most anime isn't perverted. Which is a relief to me seeing as I don't like Hentai anyway. I know there is a lot of stupid anime out there. DBZ,Cardcaptor Sakura and Gundam Wing and the usual suspects. But I incorporate the techniques of these shows into some of my pet projects. I just dislike anime because of the immature morons who think anime is god.(no offense to mature and sane fans.)

I don't understand how someone can be anti-anime. I mean, it covers so much ground. I always thought there was something for everyone. I certainly don't like all anime. I'm not at all interested in hentai or gross-out anime, and believe me, there's plenty of that. >< And to the anime fans who have been using examples of Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z, and Sailor Moon as crappy anime: You can hate these anime all you want, but don't diss their fans. I'm not a big fan of Dragon Ball Z, but I do like Pokemon and Sailor Moon. I'm just as much of an anime fan as the next one, and no less intelligent. I never once thought that there was anything wrong with enjoying cute, relatively innocent cartoons as a break from this tainted world. Even though I think pornography is wrong, I understand that human urges are natural and don't condemn people who enjoy watching hentai. I'm not trying to get anyone to like anime. That would be a waste of time. I just think this is an interesting discussion, and I wanted to join in. Expect to hear from me again.

PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE!

when r u gonna realise dat, in order 2 enjoy anime, u haveta really undastand wot itz about!

lol

kidding! think wot u wanna think as long as u aint hurtin n-e-body.

kidding! think wot u wanna think as long as u aint hurtin n-e-body.

Your god-awful AOL-like spelling and crackbrained ramble hurt me. Can't you write things properly?

Im curious though, since you have the abillity to find this stuff out, are these random google hits or is there a common thread tween CoN subbers?

Rev,

aside from a handful of subscribers, the rest of the people that visit this particular article do so because of two reasons:
1. They've been searching for something related to anime`--wheter it be "anime` sucks" or "girl tentacle hentai rape"--and they arrive here, or 2. They see a comment posted on the sideline and decide to join in the frenzy.

Interestingly enough, the more comments with anime` titles this article gets, the more other queries it seems to satisfy for people's searches.

leandro

anime anime anime anime Otaku
anime anime anime anime hentai anime anime anime anime manga anime anime anime anime "demon rape" anime anime anime anime "tentacle rape" "schoolgirl held upside down by unidentifiable beast that has a curiously dumb expression and pod-sack of peni that burst forth from it" :) <3 REVSCRJ

First of all I was just browsing around when I came across this site and was completely discusted at the ammount of hate going on. I don't think its the pro anime people who have no life it's the people who sit around dwelling on their hatred for something who have no life. Sure everyone is aloud to hate and like what they want but don't go around saying you're right and everyone else is wrong. That is very closed minded. I'm sure in the time you spent writing that article you could have done something useful and positive.

By the way, hacking down on people's spelling and grammar is a very weak argument. I hope you don't always use that to get your point across.

"By the way, hacking down on people's spelling and grammar is a very weak argument. I hope you don't always use that to get your point across."

Oh, no, I don't.

But you so called "anime` lovers" don't really leave a lot to the imagination when it comes to rebuttals.

You're either regurgitating the same old that I've heard of before or you say something written in "fucking idiotese" (refer to "How to write like a fucking idiot" for a clue) which removes any hope of an intelligent conversation.

And lastly, I don't care whether you were "discusted" or not about what I wrote. Just the fact that you wrote, proved my point.

leandro

I think all of you need to cut back on the swearing. I mean, it really doesn't make you look intelligent, and I don't see how it can help you get your point across. It doesn't bother me that much, but it does a little bit, considering I'm typing about it. I also think it would be a good idea to stop beating up on people just because they're not as good at spelling as others. After all, "disgusting" does sound like "discusting" and I've seen much worse misspellings. -_-

Thank you for your input, Sheri. We've had precious little entertainment around here since Otacon left.

Why are you completely "discusted" at the so-called hate when according to you, "everyone is aloud to hate and like what they want"? If everyone is "aloud" to hate things, but you are "dicusted" when they do, does this mean you hate when people exercise basic rights? What's the matter with you?

Oh, I should not have said that. People who misspell words like "allowed" and defend anime have absolutely no sense of sarcasm. If they did, they wouldn't waste their time here. You'll be sure to complain that I took what you said out of context if you respond to this, won't you? Except you'll probably spell it "contecks."

"don't go around saying you're right and everyone else is wrong." Oh, we don't. We're right, and you're wrong.

Little Rachael:

1. Regarding your point about the obscenities: as Mr. Cranky says, "Profanity is the last crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker."

2. Yes, it is very easy to target someone's poor grammar and spelling. In part because someone in every flame session does this, but mostly because most of the feedback criticizing this article is subliterate. How can people voraciously read manga and not pick up the spelling of words? We don't demand every feedback have perfect spelling and grammar, but is it really so much to ask that someone know the difference between "aloud" and "allowed"?

3. "It doesn't bother me that much, but it does a little bit." Never write something like that and expect to be taken seriously here.

Hey, let's talk about the next thing girls who are in the 14-20 bracket and who like anime move on to. JROCK.

Androgynous men, anyone? Hell, they don't even have to be androgynous. Crossdressing men, anyone?

Don't worry about it. I never meant to be taken seriously. I was just being honest. Stupidly honest, in fact. But hey, it's not like I'm ever going to meet any of you in real life.

>Don't worry about it. I never meant to be taken seriously. >I was just being honest. Stupidly honest, in fact. But >hey, it's not like I'm ever going to meet any of you in >real life.

Actually, this is not true. I'm your mother.

I've been looking for you! Will you take me to McDonald's tomorrow?

Out of the Topic, but i think if America decides to wage war on NoKor after Iraq. then NoKor might nuke its neighbors including Japan.

Wow, aint that great? it's the end of the world and anime.

>I've been looking for you! Will you take me to McDonald's >tomorrow?

Sure dear. I'll buy you a nice Happy Meal.

http://www.anzwers.org/free/moonxtal/essay/censoredanime.html

http://www.jessdoor.com/anime/why.html

http://www.jeddy.org/moi/anime/why.html

Anime is dangerous and unhealthly. I recommend anyone under 16 steer clear of it. It'll warp your mind.

That's such a controversial statement! How is anime unhealthy? Are there medical records proving this? C'mon lets see some proof! You know I could also say that sports, music, and even television are unhealthy tools used to brainwash the ignorant masses.

Proof we do not have, however, there is some evidence of the possibility.

http://www.csicop.org/si/2001-05/pokemon.html

"You know I could also say that sports, music, and even television are unhealthy tools used to brainwash the ignorant masses."

I've shown you my supporting evidence, now you show me yours.

You can't expect me to say that I have proof either because I don't. However, if you want proof lets see...ah! Lets talk about Pop fans, they seem like a nice bunch right? Yet they dress in slutty clothing because of the influence of Brittany Spears; they also worship boy bands and continually buy their merchandise just because it has their favorite bands face on it. Though the truth could also be said about Rock, Rap, and country that is not the point.

People seem to think that anime is just a trend, which it probably is to the teenage 13-17 groups who in some cases may be the obsessive anime otaku people make them out to be. Yet there is one flaw in this argument, you forget to mention the older anime fans ones who just buy a series or two and are satisfied. You may consider me an otaku like the rest of them but I only like four anime series and the rest I just don't bother with because I've never found them quite as interesting. There are people like that you know; there are fans out there who still know what the real world is and yet they are considered to be just as obsessive as the otaku wanna-be’s who have only watched shows on cartoon network, FOX, and Kids WB. I don't know about you but I don't think it's fair to just label anyone who likes anime as "obsessive." If you're going to label an anime fan as obsessive, you might as well label everyone in the world as obsessive because everyone has their interests and hobbies and are possibly just as obsessive as us.

What about people who build models? What about those people who have huge collections of comic books and star wars action figures outlining their whole house are they not obsessed? What about Trekkies who wear star trek clothing and speak klingon on a daily basis are they not obsessed? Tell me what is your definition of obsessed and why are anime fans the only ones labeled as such. You wanted proof and you got it.

Your reply begins with:

"You can't expect me to say that I have proof either because I don't."

And concludes with:

"You wanted proof and you got it."

Those two sentences speak volumes. As to the "proof" you provide, you obviously have "proof" confused with "Rampant and barely coherent speculation about random topics not quite related to the issue at hand."

It's quite challenging to dissect your argument, because I'm not sure you know what your argument is. However, let's review:

"Lets talk about Pop fans, they seem like a nice bunch right? Yet they dress in slutty clothing because of the influence of Brittany Spears; they also worship boy bands and continually buy their merchandise just because it has their favorite bands face on it"

Show me evidence that all pop fans dress in sluttly clothes. And worship boy bands. I'm neither saying they do or they don't, I just want to know how you drew your conclusions. Show me a study. Show me an article. Might I remind you that you were the one who wrote an email blasting someone for saying that anime was unhealthy without proof? If you're so opposed to this, why did you post these extremely shakey assertions? Surely if it's true you could readily find a study on the Internet.

"I don't know about you but I don't think it's fair to just label anyone who likes anime as "obsessive.""

We label persons "obsessive" when they are determined counter any anti-anime sentiment, no matter how inconsequential. Now why is that? I can tell that the person that said anime was unhealthy was just being obnoxious. You apparently couldn't. That's why you responded. If this person had said that about something I was interested in, I would not have responded. I would have recognize the attempt to bait me. Review my feud with Otacon and you'll see what I am driving at. You have fallen into the cunning trap set for you because you fail to see its purpose.

"There are people like that you know; there are fans out there who still know what the real world is and yet they are considered to be just as obsessive as the otaku wanna-be’s who have only watched shows on cartoon network, FOX, and Kids WB."

I see. So people who have only seen anime on mainstream American television and are mere "wanna-be's" are MORE obsessed than other kinds of anime fans? You mean, the kind that are "real" otakus and must go out of their way to get their anime from other non-mainstream sources? Tell me something, are "wanna-be's" more or less likely to try to defend anime and anime fans to strangers on the Internet?

By the way, thanks for demonstrating classic anime fan behavior. "Oh, I'm not like the people that watch THAT kind of anime. The stuff *I* watch is so much better. THOSE people and THAT anime give anime such a bad name."

"Tell me what is your definition of obsessed and why are anime fans the only ones labeled as such."

The dictionary definition does nicely: "To have the mind excessively preoccupied with a single emotion or topic."

Kindly indicate where anyone said that of the entire population of planet Earth, only anime fans are obsessed with something.

Let me make one thing clear Otaku means nerd. mmm kay. Sailor Moon and any random anime you can think of are cartoons you dummies! Cartoons are not real repeat after me you are not Goku Son or Majin Buu. You are some misguided and emotionally disturbed and reality challenged Americans. Make note I talking to all Otakus particularly purists and you America haters and haters of all things western. Anime is not Japanese culture. If I was Japanese I'd kick your butt. That's like saying the Simpsons reflects the attitudes of all Americans. While you're at Sweat Drop is not a an expression it's a cheap visual device that conveys embarrassed which you should be feeling right now utter embarrassment. Do any of you turkeys think Japanese people fight in robots and Kamehameha beams. Grow up already! Bask in the sun if you remember what that is.

I wrote that statement because Otaku annoy me. I know someone who is warped by their Anime obsession or viewing it. I've come to the conclusion that there are some sane people who just like anime for the same innocent reasons people like cartoons. I was mad when I wrote that.

I wasn't refering to anime fans as a whole only those twisted Purists and very Obsessed anime fans.

*sweatdrop* What the hell is your problem? You're basically talking about DUBBED anime. People aren't obsessed with that; just because you've seen shitty Pokemon doesn't mean you know everything about all there is about anime! Watch some good ones- IN JAPANESE WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES. The english ones are edited to be viewed by little kids. THAT'S why they suck! ANIME RULES, YOU MORON!

BAKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KUSOTARRE!!!!!!!!!!

Samara-chan (LONG LIVE ANIME (and Son Gohan from DBZ! ^_~!)!!!!!!!!!!)

Let’s get this rebuttal started!

"You know I could also say that sports, music, and even television are unhealthy tools used to brainwash the ignorant masses."

"I've shown you my supporting evidence, now you show me yours."

This quote here directly asks me for proof of what I argued. Fair enough I replied to that with this statement.

"You can't expect me to say that I have proof either because I don't."

What I meant is that I don't have consequential proof only based opinions and facts. What do I mean by facts you ask? Well let’s continue this with my example.

"Lets talk about Pop fans, they seem like a nice bunch right? Yet they dress in slutty clothing because of the influence of Brittany Spears; they also worship boy bands and continually buy their merchandise just because it has their favorite bands face on it"

I seemed to be pretty legit here; I brought out cold hard facts on how people obsessed with genre's of music usually buy clothes relating to their teen pop idols. However, then you responded with this.

"Show me evidence that all pop fans dress in sluttly clothes. And worship boy bands. I'm neither saying they do or they don't, I just want to know how you drew your conclusions. Show me a study. Show me an article."

Haven't you been out to the mall lately? Yeesh it's like every time I go there; there are teenage girls my age wearing very short skirts and shirts that are so short they only cover the person's chest. Is that proof enough for you? Not only is that kind of style disgusting and tasteless but can you honestly say this stuff is alright? Also yes they do worship boybands, you wouldn't believe how many girls I saw angry because Justin Timberlake was going out with Brittney Spears. Because she was quote "stealing their guy" and the same would be true for any other member of any boyband in existance.
"Might I remind you that you were the one who wrote an email blasting someone for saying that anime was unhealthy without proof?"

That's because they didn't have proof, their only proof would probably be that pokemon episode that gave millions of kid’s seizures but c'mon that's not really a basis that all anime is unhealthy.

"If you're so opposed to this, why did you post these extremely shakey assertions? Surely if it's true you could readily find a study on the Internet."

Wait! Why did I post that I could say that music, television, and sports are just as brainwashing? Well in truth everything is. Because everything is influential; everything gives off a message to people. That's why I brought up the example of pop and the boyband craze. With sports Ive seen people sit in their lazy boy recliners for an entire weekend without sleep just so they can watch the entire last season of football/basketball/etc. which they conviently taped. And as for television, just look at all the news reports of people imitating JackAss! Heck I don't ever remember seeing a news story on someone hurting themselves over anime. (The pokemon card issue doesn't count though, sure its an anime related news story but I mean in relation to seeing a show and actually imitating it.)

To Be continued in part two

First I want to say sorry for having to put this in different parts, The site would not allow me to post the whole thing. Now lets get into the obsession issue now. heh I seem to be on a roll here.

"I don't know about you but I don't think it's fair to just label anyone who likes anime as "obsessive."

Yes and I still don't besides as I said in an earlier post:

"If you're going to label an anime fan as obsessive, you might as well label everyone in the world as obsessive because everyone has their interests and hobbies and are possibly just as obsessive as us."

Now let's get to your response.

"We label persons "obsessive" when they are determined counter any anti-anime sentiment, no matter how inconsequential."

Eh no try again this is called defending your side of the argument it has nothing to do with anime fans being obsessed. After all there are two sides to every argument and I just happen to be on the opposing side.

"Now why is that? I can tell that the person that said anime was unhealthy was just being obnoxious. You apparently couldn't."

I could tell, but its obnoxious comments like these that may have no truth to the argument in general. However, no one should use a complete lie as their basis for a legit argument.

"That's why you responded."

yup that's why I responded.

"If this person had said that about something I was interested in, I would not have responded."

Yes you would have! You're a human being of course you would defend stuff you're interested in. Even if it was something of very little importence you would still argue. Because just like everyone else you would be offended if the opposite side called your side "stupid" or that "people who like this don't have real lives."

"I would have recognized the attempt to bait me. Review my feud with Otacon and you'll see what I am driving at. You have fallen into the cunning trap set for you because you fail to see its purpose."

I have reviewed your feud with Otacon and that's why I'm driving at this. In my view all your arguments during that one skirmish was nothing but biased opinions.

"I see. So people who have only seen anime on mainstream American television and are mere "wanna-be's" are MORE obsessed than other kinds of anime fans?"

Of course not and this is where I bring up my next line of discussion. Look anime fans are anime fans even the ones who just stick to mainstream. I refer to wanna-be otaku's as the people who has only seen mainstream and insist that they know everything about Japan, its culture, its language, and anime in general. These people are not fans even though they like anime they are just getting started. It would be like listening to one Metallica song and claiming yourself to be a hard core Metallica fan.

"You mean the kind that are "real" otakus and must go out of their way to get their anime from other non-mainstream sources?"

Let me get this straight ok? Otaku is ALL anime fans. The term "otaku" is an identifiable term. This means that everyone who likes at least one anime can be considered an otaku. The ones who buy the non-mainstream anime are the more mature anime fans who want to broaden their horizons and not stick to the badly dubbed and censored mainstream propaganda. Is that wrong for a person to do that?

"Tell me something, are "wanna-be's" more or less likely to try to defend anime and anime fans to strangers on the Internet?"

Of course they are, but they don't give that much of an argument. Those "wanna-be's" are the ones who say stuff like

"ANIME RULEZ, YOU ALL SUCK!!!!!!!!!!"

See that's the difference, the more mature fans have experience with many different types of anime mainstream and non-mainstream and thus have a much stronger argument when it comes to debates like these.

"By the way, thanks for demonstrating classic anime fan behavior. "Oh, I'm not like the people that watch THAT kind of anime. The stuff *I* watch is so much better. THOSE people and THAT anime give anime such a bad name."

Now that's just twisting my words! I never said that! I love mainstream just as much as non-mainstream. All anime is unique and great in its own way. Also they don't give us a bad name a lot of the time they're pretty decent people. Its when they get in your face for not liking what they like, when they resort to name-calling and swearing, and when they just act like complete jerks. That's when they give anime fans a bad name.

"The dictionary definition does nicely: "To have the mind excessively preoccupied with a single emotion or topic."

Really? This is the definition I got:

"Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety."

or

"A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion"

So lets see, does being an anime fan and arguing what I like an unreasonable idea or emotion? No it isn't because we all have the right to argue our points. Am I preoccupied with it, maybe but not totally.

"Kindly indicate where anyone said that of the entire population of planet Earth, only anime fans are obsessed with something"

Well what about you? I mean you don't seem to recognize other forms of culture as being obsessed with anything. Even though this argument is about anime that "obsessive" argument is a null statement. Because as I said anyone and everyone is obsessed with something. In other words I was not referring to the whole world thinking this, I'm referring to the fact that there are people out there when in trying to prove a point, never look at other factors. You may have thought that bringing in different subjects were unrelated, I see them more as proof of my argument

me again, in college XD

just wanted to quote some stu---ehhh nevermind

RACH:I don't understand how someone can be anti-anime. I mean, it covers so much ground. I always thought there was something for everyone. I certainly don't like all anime. I'm not at all interested in hentai or gross-out anime, and believe me, there's plenty of that

There are tons of people who ask the opposite "why is someone pro-anime"
Of course you are going to think you are right, and I am wrong, thats how you think... but since I am neutral; I think both ways. All this thing (to me) is saying is, "anime is not that great".

I watched Mononoke Hime and due to my lack of empathy (for syndrome reasons) I thought the movie was nicely animated but very boring.
Same with Grave or Fireflies...everyone gives this a high review saying how great it is, and how Japanese animation will always be superior to western animation...well I saw it and I thought it was overrated, nicely done, good story, made you think and such...but in the end its not the best thing.

Now its Spirited Away...I'm just think I don't have any feelings for this guys work.

If this kind of anime tugs your heart strings then thats you, if mine are cut then thats me. I am an anime fan, but I am a biased one and proud of it.

So far its the anti comments that make the most sense to me.

SHERI: Anime Sucks! Well maybe for you...First of all I was just browsing around when I came across this site and was completely discusted at the ammount of hate going on. I don't think its the pro anime people who have no life it's the people who sit around dwelling on their hatred for something who have no life.

Who said people who hate anime are dwelling on hating it? Someone can hate bees and only feel that type of hate when its around them, if its not then they can go on without even thinking about it. Even people with Anti-Anime sites don't dwell on hating, they are expressing a natural dislike to something and show that through a site...same if they were to come up to you and say "i hate anime"
and they can walk away and never see you again, you can completely ignore them like this place.

Sure everyone is aloud to hate and like what they want but don't go around saying you're right and everyone else is wrong. That is very closed minded. I'm sure in the time you spent writing that article you could have done something useful and positive.

You just contradicted yourself...and obviously you didn't notice. That whole para(abbr) just has me chuckling...it was a nice try though.
key quotes:

"don't go around saying you're right and everyone else is wrong" o-------o "I don't think its the pro anime people who have no life it's the people who sit around dwelling on their hatred for something who have no life"

"That is very closed minded" o------o "Sure everyone is aloud to hate and like what they want"

In a way everyone is close minded, even me
example: someone likes the color blue and hates red the other person likes red and hates blue...both of them are going to be closed minded to the others choice...get it now? The other who likes red will say I am more open minded cause thats the color I like (or should be liked)...and vice for the other who likes blue. If ya wanna be all tech...

By the way, hacking down on people's spelling and grammar is a very weak argument. I hope you don't always use that to get your point across.

You are hacking down on some ones personality, feelings and opinion that expresses their dislike for anime, and I hope you don't always use this statement to get your point across, cause in a way it is very weak and can be easily countered.
Besides...flamers who think they are tops but make misspells are funny.

Anime Sucks! Well maybe for you...

See...not all groups of people like the same thing...accept that.

evil browser and submit button...working together >_> i just know it <_<

I see you're going to be tougher to crack than Otacon. No, that wasn't a compliment.

"I've shown you my supporting evidence, now you show me yours."
This quote here directly asks me for proof of what I argued.

No Aethos, I asked you for evidence, not proof. Evidence is data that supports a theory. Proof confirms the theory. If you can't see the difference we have a long journey ahead of us. The article I showed you wasn't proof, and I never claimed it to be. I specifically told you, we don't have proof, we have evidence. Then I asked you for evidence.

By the way, you could have very easily thrown the article back in my face by saying the article examines several explanations for the Pokemon incident, including mass hysteria. You missed that opportunity though, because I suspect you didn't read it all.

What I meant is that I don't have consequential proof only based opinions and facts.... I seemed to be pretty legit here; I brought out cold hard facts...

I was able to provide you with an article that offers at least some evidence that anime, specifically Pokemon, caused a health problem. It was researched, took into account medical and cultural possibilities, and sources were credited. You were only able to offer personal observation. That is not entirely worthless, but hardly "cold hard facts." But if they are "cold hard facts" there must be several credible studies somewhere. Why don't you go find one?

Is that proof enough for you? Not only is that kind of style disgusting and tasteless but can you honestly say this stuff is alright?

No, it's not proof, and it's barely evidence. And you're missing the point. Someone say anime unhealthy. You say bad. You ask for proof. I say, "No proof, only evidence." Me give you link to article from Skeptical Inquirer. You say all people watch boybands and Britney Spears dress slutty. Me ask for evidence. You say "'Cause me visit mall and said so." Me point out double standard.

I am not arguing that they do, or they don't; or that it's right or wrong. I'm just pointing out your standards for evidence seem to be selective.

Why did I post that I could say that music, television, and sports are just as brainwashing? Well in truth everything is. Because everything is influential; everything gives off a message to people.

Quite frankly I don't know why you posted that. There is a difference between sending a message and brainwashing. I am sending you a message now. If it's brainwashing you, I apologize.

Heck I don't ever remember seeing a news story on someone hurting themselves over anime.

Possibly because as we established earlier, you don't go looking for evidence, you just declare things. The Saudis banned Pokemon because they believed it promoted gambling amongst children, and "Zionism." I have also seen second-hand reports of a child in Kobe beating his cousin to death, supposedly imitating a fighting anime, but I shall consider that hearsay until I see a credible source.

But it's all immaterial anyway. I believe such incidents are greatly exagerrated, and don't believe forms of entertainment should be held accountable for what "imitators" supposedly do.

Eh no try again this is called defending your side of the argument it has nothing to do with anime fans being obsessed.

Let me ask you this: why do you HAVE to respond? You now claim to have known that the person who wrote that was just being obnoxious. That doesn't make you look better, it makes you look worse. You know the post had no valid content, but somehow it was still worthy of your time to respond. Why? "Mind excessively preoccupied with a single emotion or topic."

no one should use a complete lie as their basis for a legit argument.

True. But it wasn't a complete lie. Partial evidence is offered in the article.

You're a human being of course you would defend stuff you're interested in.

No, not like that. I do not believe in converting people to my interests. "Allah does not need you to defend him from a moron." -Kareem Said, "To Your Health" No, I am not Muslim, I just like the quote.

As for "defending" your interest, did this person pose some kind of danger to anime? Do you think his post caused 50 anime fans to say "Oh no! I better stop being an anime fan!" Do you think your response caused those same anime fans to say "Oh, phew, thank God for Aethos, otherwise I would have abandoned anime forever?"

A person who writes "anime sux" is not likely to be swayed by any argument. The message "anime sux" does not offer any substantial argument that is worthy of a response. That never seems to stop anime fans from making them. Because of "A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion."

I have reviewed your feud with Otacon and that's why I'm driving at this. In my view all your arguments during that one skirmish was nothing but biased opinions.

You mean, my own personal observations without any supporting evidence? Yeah, I really hate people who do that.

Here is a restatement of my thesis, because this argument really is going in all sorts of silly directions. My thesis is that an overwhelming amount of anime fans are so obsessed that they must respond to every anti-anime sentiment, no matter how pointless this is. Yes, they are within their rights to waste their time, but I don't think they do it out of any great love for free speech, I think they do it because of insecurity.

1. This means that everyone who likes at least one anime can be considered an otaku.

2. I refer to wanna-be otaku's as the people who has only seen mainstream and insist that they know everything about Japan, its culture, its language, and anime in general. These people are not fans even though they like anime they are just getting started. It would be like listening to one Metallica song and claiming yourself to be a hard core Metallica fan.

Make up your mind. If you like one piece of anime, are you an otaku or not, delusions of understanding Japan aside?

Oh, I'm not like the people that watch THAT kind of anime. The stuff *I* watch is so much better. THOSE people and THAT anime give anime such a bad name." Now that's just twisting my words! I never said that!

You said "otaku wanna-be’s who have only watched shows on cartoon network, FOX, and Kids WB." So, you don't really look down on "wanna-be's" who have "only" watched certain shows?

does being an anime fan and arguing what I like an unreasonable idea or emotion? No it isn't because we all have the right to argue our points. Am I preoccupied with it, maybe but not totally.

And after all that, he concedes he might be "preoccupied" with it. Not totally? Fine. Prove it. It's very easy to do and prove my thesis wrong, just like Otacon eventually did.

"Kindly indicate where anyone said that of the entire population of planet Earth, only anime fans are obsessed with something"
Well what about you? I mean you don't seem to recognize other forms of culture as being obsessed with anything.

If I believe that, show me where I wrote "Only anime fans are obsessed with their chosen interest. No other group in the history of the world has, or will ever be, obsessed with anything."

In our brief time together, we have discussed only anime. Perhaps because this is a message board discussing an anime article. I do in fact believe there are other obsessive people in the world. I'm just harassing anime fans because it's so easy ('cause they're so obsessed), and often fun. Thank you, I'm enjoying this.

I have another, ulterior motive too. If you read the Otacon Incident, as it came to be known, you may have guessed what it is. Perhaps we will discuss it if you write back. I think you will. You're "Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion."

http://www.inmusicwetrust.com/articles/48f01.html

"No Aethos, I asked you for evidence, not proof. Evidence is data that supports a theory. Proof confirms the theory. If you can't see the difference we have a long journey ahead of us. The article I showed you wasn't proof, and I never claimed it to be. I specifically told you, we don't have proof, we have evidence. Then I asked you for evidence."

Of which I gave a real life experience since you didn't seem to grasp. Well if that isn't good enough for you then check out the article I posted above this message.

"Quite frankly I don't know why you posted that. There is a difference between sending a message and brainwashing. I am sending you a message now. If it's brainwashing you, I apologize."

Alright, first off when did I mix the two together? Sure there is a difference between the two but think of it this way. A message can influence a certain group or groups of people, the most influential is children and pre-teens. Since music, news, sports, and a whole lot of other stuff is put on TV. It sends these messages to children. Sure you may not think words do anything. However, a picture is worth a thousand words. Look at the pictures of Britney Spears in that article I posted. To any child and pre-teen seeing her perform, they might think that dressing that way is ok and that its cool to dress in very little clothing.

Parents have the choice of what their children watch, but how many parents monitor their children? If anything this is why censorship is highly fought for by parents. Because of the influential messages coming from absolutely everything.

In some cases yes, anime can be just as bad but that's why the companies censor it so much. In order to not give off any negative influence the original show once had. Shows like DBZ for example was highly edited for this reason alone as well as Card Captor Sakura.

"Possibly because as we established earlier, you don't go looking for evidence, you just declare things. The Saudis banned Pokemon because they believed it promoted gambling amongst children, and "Zionism."."

Oh please, they also said that Pokemon was banned in countries because of the psychic type pokemon. Yes the word Psychic made people go into a frenzy saying that the show was promoting witch craft which wasn't proven just speculation. Also these were also the people who took a stuffed Pikachu into church and stabbed it with a sword to "purge" the evil out of children. I merely laugh at these because those anti-pokemon practitioners haven't really come up with any evidence besides that "it's evil."

“I have also seen second-hand reports of a child in Kobe beating his cousin to death, supposedly imitating a fighting anime, but I shall consider that hearsay until I see a credible source”

Yeah though you could say the same thing about backyard wrestling

“Let me ask you this: why do you HAVE to respond? You now claim to have known that the person who wrote that was just being obnoxious. That doesn't make you look better, it makes you look worse. You know the post had no valid content, but somehow it was still worthy of your time to respond. Why? "Mind excessively preoccupied with a single emotion or topic."”

Ok now who said I was “TRYING” to look better, personally I did know that; that person’s comment was obnoxious and without proof of context but it’s these kinds of posts that really get me steamed because it seems that comments like these go way too far. After all this is a mature debate remember? Plus when you hear things like this quote I got off of here

http://www.dotvsdot.co.uk/vs/0/1068.html

Proves my point exactly:

“Austin likes AMERICAN ANIMATION AND COMICS BETTER BECAUSE:
Japanese animation is anti-American, so if you support Japanese animation you support Osama bin Laden! Plus, Pokemon and other things like that brainwash children, good thing American kids don't give a shit about Pokemon any more.”

Now can you honestly say that’s “NOT” an offensive statement! I happen to be an American, A very loyal and patriotic American and when I hear things like these am I supposed to ignore them? Sure that guy’s talking bull, but that’s just attacking a person’s interests in the worst way possible. Plus that is a down right racial statement to Japanese people as well as true blue Americans who like anime. Disagree if you want too but I stand behind that fact.

“As for "defending" your interest, did this person pose some kind of danger to anime? Do you think his post caused 50 anime fans to say "Oh no! I better stop being an anime fan!" Do you think your response caused those same anime fans to say "Oh, phew, thank God for Aethos, otherwise I would have abandoned anime forever?"”

Nope, never thought that nor have I ever said that. Once again you are twisting my words. I’m just stating my views and opinions on this issue. I’m not trying to convert anyone to anything. You can like or hate anime just be mature about it that’s all I think that’s why it’s fun debating with you. You haven’t gone off on a tangent like many anti-anime supporters.

“A person who writes "anime sux" is not likely to be swayed by any argument. The message "anime sux" does not offer any substantial argument that is worthy of a response. That never seems to stop anime fans from making them. Because of "A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion."”

Yes I can believe you on that, but as I also stated the mature fans don’t act on a compulsive act of anxiety. I’ve seen many anime fans discuss this issue maturely. Maybe there have only been a few on here but that’s better than none at all.

"You mean, my own personal observations without any supporting evidence? Yeah, I really hate people who do that."

“Here is a restatement of my thesis, because this argument really is going in all sorts of silly directions. My thesis is that an overwhelming amount of anime fans are so obsessed that they must respond to every anti-anime sentiment, no matter how pointless this is. Yes, they are within their rights to waste their time, but I don't think they do it out of any great love for free speech, I think they do it because of insecurity.”

What can I say? I agree, there are many obsessed fans. I used to be one of them when I was in ninth grade, in eleventh grade I grew out of that and into more important things such as getting good grades and getting ready to apply to college’s. However, the obsessive anime fans I was around only loved one thing and that was mainstream, they thought the idea that non-mainstream anime existed was ludicrous and didn’t even give it a chance saying it “sucked” and said that “DBZ is the only anime ever.” But this was just one case, not everyone may think this and maybe even the ones who have gone into the non-mainstream section of anime may deal with mainstream the same way because they believe that the original is a lot better. Somehow though I see many more anti-dub anime supporters either cussing people out and saying they don’t know true anime or you have the more mature arguments that tell why the original is better with quotes and examples from the anime’s in question.

“Make up your mind. If you like one piece of anime, are you an otaku or not, delusions of understanding Japan aside?”

As I said the term Otaku is just another word for an anime fan. I think you’re confusing yourself here because what I meant is there are no “wanna-be’s” but if you want a definition then look at posts where anti-anime supporters claim that Otaku’s are learning Japanese, buying anime paraphernalia, and learning about Japanese culture just for anime sakes. This is a mix between the obsessive and the “wanna-be” otaku group that I mentioned.

“You said "otaku wanna-be’s who have only watched shows on cartoon network, FOX, and Kids WB." So, you don't really look down on "wanna-be's" who have "only" watched certain shows?”

Yes, so I was wrong there sorry. The fact is; is that “Wanna-be” Otaku’s never want to see mainstream anime. These are the people who believe that DBZ is the greatest anime ever and that all others suck, or the ones who think that Pokemon is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The whole thing about anime is that it’s diverse it has many genre’s of which you can choose. Saying that you’re the biggest anime fan on the planet after only seeing pokemon or DBZ doesn’t r4eally say you’re an Otaku, but that would be contradicting myself wouldn’t it?

I’ll explain this bluntly, Otaku’s are anime fans in general if you like one anime you are an otaku, but this is where it gets broken into “wanna-be” otaku’s and “true” otaku’s

Wanna-be Otaku’s: These Otaku’s don’t want to get into non-mainstream because they think that mainstream is the only anime out there. The fact is; is that then they claim themselves to be masters of everything Japanese and will go as far as to learning everything about it in order to prove themselves true anime fans. These are mainly the obsessive anime fans that get very sensitive over someone saying “anime sux”

True otaku’s: These Otaku are the ones who mainly see anime as a hobby, they love it because to them it is a source of entertainment. However, unlike the “wanna-be” otaku’s, the “true” otaku’s don’t wish to learn everything Japanese for anime sake. These are the more mature fans who shrug aside comments like “anime sux” and go for the completely false statements made by obnoxious people.

“our brief time together, we have discussed only anime. Perhaps because this is a message board discussing an anime article. I do in fact believe there are other obsessive people in the world. I'm just harassing anime fans because it's so easy ('cause they're so obsessed), and often fun. Thank you, I'm enjoying this.”

Nah you’re doing it cause you like to argue and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m glad that you admit then that there are other obsessive people in this world so now that that’s out of the way, I’d like to say that I find this fun too and I’m enjoying this as much as you are.

“I have another, ulterior motive too. If you read the Otacon Incident, as it came to be known, you may have guessed what it is. Perhaps we will discuss it if you write back. I think you will. You're "Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion."”

What you want me to give up already? Hey this is just starting to get fun I say why end the party half way through!

Why do people feel the need to complain, or elaborate on something that is pointless. People seem to have a need to fight about something even though it could be dropped. This arguement will probably not sway either side to drop your opinion, or succumb to your opponent, if you just end it now, no one can say anything and this post will probably die.

I've seen these Pro-Anime vs Anti-Anime posts far too often, my main question, why do people revive this arguement/

Good lord yall "CARTOONS"
THEY ARE CARTOONS!

"Ive seen these pro/anti anime arguements before"

Heh...heh...HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry... Im usually not such a dick but GET A GRIP channel your arguementitive abillities somewhere positive.

For ex: a tomahawk missle costs $US 150,000. An f-18 comes strapped w/ about 9 or so... and yet people starve, lack education, or get kicked by IMPROV. Is this right?

(sarcasm)
Or: which season of Sailor Moon (us dubbed release) did you think was truest to the original concept? (/sarcasm)

<3
REVSCRJ

Why argue over something as pointless as this, we know we like anime and we also know they hate it. Also we know that in the end this whole thing will come out as a stale mate. I just want to see a few more mature arguers like Jason come into this instead of those ones that just give immature comments. And at least end this stereotype thing that anime-haters seem to think we are.

oh and REVSCRJ

nice input, you're right about that we should worry about other stuff

"For ex: a tomahawk missle costs $US 150,000. An f-18 comes strapped w/ about 9 or so... and yet people starve, lack education, or get kicked by IMPROV. Is this right?"

Nope of course not, but you have to remember that many of the people here are either in high school and college and can't really do anything to help with these other matters at the moment. Even though we would love to of course. I mean I wouldn't mind helping those people starving in impoverished countries or help educate children to live a better life and I'm sure a lot of people thing that way too.

Well if that isn't good enough for you then check out the article I posted above this message.

Very good. That wasn't so hard now, was it?

There is a difference between sending a message and brainwashing. I am sending you a message now. If it's brainwashing you, I apologize."

Alright, first off when did I mix the two together?

When you wrote "Why did I post that I could say that music, television, and sports are just as brainwashing? Well in truth everything is. Because everything is influential; everything gives off a message to people."

Oh please, they also said that Pokemon was banned in countries because of the psychic type pokemon

Indeed some countries did ban Pokemon for those reasons. See, you had more information than you thought! I wish you could have got to it earlier. We could have saved ourselves some space.

posts that really get me steamed because it seems that comments like these go way too far. After all this is a mature debate remember?

It isn't mature in the slightest. "if you support Japanese animation you support Osama bin Laden!" You think THAT'S part of a mature debate? That was even worse than the health comment. And you want to waste your time with it? So what words of wisdom did you impart to the writer of that message, which caused him to recant what he said? And once again, did his statement threaten the entire Japanese animation industry with destruction? If so, did they ask you to step in with a great argument and save them? Unless they did, you're wasting your time.

So, you don't really look down on "wanna-be's" who have "only" watched certain shows?”

I was wrong there sorry.

Apology accepted.

Nope, never thought that nor have I ever said that. Once again you are twisting my words.

"Once again"? I didn't twist your words. I accused you of bashing anime fans you consider to be lower class. You then apologized, as quoted above, for doing so. I thought you were following this argument.

Perhaps it would be harder for me to "twist" your words if you didn't write things like this:

1. I think you’re confusing yourself here because what I meant is there are no "wanna-be’s"

2. Wanna-be Otaku’s: These Otaku’s don’t want to get into non-mainstream because they...

3. Otaku’s are anime fans in general if you like one anime you are an otaku, but this is where it gets broken into “wanna-be” otaku’s and “true” otaku’s

And you say I'm confused? Do you believe "wanna-bes" exist or not?

What you want me to give up already? Hey this is just starting to get fun I say why end the party half way through!

No, don't go away. You still need my assistance. You've made progress by finally posting supporting evidence (good, bad, indifferent, it doesn't matter, you posted evidence). You've also acknowledged mistakes and inconsistencies in your arguments. But you still have a ways to go. In particular, you need to stop contradicting yourself by stating one thing and then posting the opposite three sentences later. The brainwashing comment also indicates you have trouble remembering what you've posted previously.

But you're getting there.

Why do people feel the need to complain, or elaborate on something that is pointless.

Good question. Why did you complain and elaborate on this pointlessness?

This arguement will probably not sway either side to drop your opinion, or succumb to your opponent,

This is actually a major point of my argument.

if you just end it now, no one can say anything and this post will probably die.

And what fun would that be?

I've seen these Pro-Anime vs Anti-Anime posts far too often, my main question, why do people revive this arguement/

My argument is not about anime. It's about anime fans. Few people have caught on to this.

Now that I've addressed your "main" question, where are your secondary questions?

"When you wrote, "Why did I post that I could say that music, television, and sports are just as brainwashing? Well in truth everything is. Because everything is influential; everything gives off a message to people.""

I was giving an example there that everything can be a bad thing not just anime. Read into it a little more, when people say that anime is brainwashing they're just being over zealous. In my own opinion people who don't recognize everything as being brainwashing because they give off a message to children don't have a real argument when they only accuse anime of this. The two are mixed together but more metaphorically. Just look at the news about a few weeks ago when they were promoting that video games should be censored because of Grand Theft Auto 3 for the main reason that young children were playing this game and would possibly start to believe that this is how life really is. I call that brainwashing, so I was just implying that anime isn't the only specific media capable of doing this.

"It isn't mature in the slightest. "if you support Japanese animation you support Osama bin Laden!" You think THAT'S part of a mature debate?"

Of course not, but it gives me the impression that if this is how all anti-anime supporters are then I'm glad I'm not on their side.

"That was even worse than the health comment. And you want to waste your time with it?"

Hey I only used it as an example, who said I was wasting time with it. As I said above to me that's proof enough that if the only arguments anti-anime supporters can bring up are one-sided, hypocrital and not to mention racial comments to make people support them. Then why would I ever want to switch sides? I'd rather be on the anime side where people don't patronize a person with such words.

"So what words of wisdom did you impart to the writer of that message, which caused him to recant what he said?"

Actually nothing, I never posted there once, mainly because that issue is totally different from the health one. That one was nothing but a load of bull. The health one could have been credible with a little evidence. That's the difference between the two, but if you don't believe me on that; the link is right above that quote so you can go there if you want and check to see if I posted there. If I had I'd be there under this name.

"And once again, did his statement threaten the entire Japanese animation industry with destruction?"

Nope, but I found it racist and immoral. And even though it offended me in that sense. It didn't mean that the Japanese animation industry would go under.

"If so, did they ask you to step in with a great argument and save them? Unless they did, you're wasting your time."

How on earth did I waste my time, I never even posted there.

"So, you don't really look down on "wanna-be's" who have "only" watched certain shows?”"

Course not, heck I was once one of them. Why should I dis respect them on their choices.

""Once again"? I didn't twist your words. I accused you of bashing anime fans you consider to be lower class."

Alright, I accept that. However, I never once thought there were any anime fans that were lower class and if I had I apologize for that but when I said there were no "wanna-be" otaku's, I merely stated that there are no lower class ones and that all Otaku's are equal on a certain level of fandom.

"And you say I'm confused? Do you believe "wanna-be’s" exist or not?"

I stated that there are not any inferior or lower class otaku's am I correct? Now yes they do exist but they aren't lower class. They are just the fans who are satisfied with mainstream and seem to think that all non-mainstream anime sucks. Then these fans claim themselves to be ultimate anime fans. They get cocky, pushy, and will ignore you if you like anything non-mainstream or don't like what they like. They will even resort to cussing and/or violence to prove their point. This doesn't mean they're lower class it just means they are new to anime.!

No, don't go away. You still need my assistance. You've made progress by finally posting supporting evidence (good, bad, indifferent, it doesn't matter, you posted evidence).

::bows:: Thank you kindly

"You've also acknowledged mistakes and inconsistencies in your arguments. But you still have a ways to go."

Actually I agree there

"In particular, you need to stop contradicting yourself by stating one thing and then posting the opposite three sentences later."

Oy, I swear I'm trying not too but it just comes out that way. I guess I should read over what I write more than twice before I post it up.

"My argument is not about anime. It's about anime fans. Few people have caught on to this."

Yes, and my argument is for the fans too. If anything I'm trying to stop this stereotype that anti-anime supporters think we are. Because in truth we're not obsessive, aggresive, zombies who are brainwashed by anime. I'm at least trying to show that anime fans are decent human beings who just have a specific interest that happens to be anime.

The health one could have been credible with a little evidence.

Ah. Interesting. From your first message responding to the article: "That's such a controversial statement! How is anime unhealthy? Are there medical records proving this? C'mon lets see some proof!"

So, when you wrote that, you were not in fact denying the possibility that anime was unhealthy. You were in fact open to the possibility, you just wanted some evidence before making up your mind?

Hmm. My theory about the insecurity of anime fans might be more accurate than even I suspected.

I stated that there are not any inferior or lower class otaku's am I correct? Now yes they do exist but they aren't lower class.

Sigh. To paraphrase: "There are lower class anime fans. But they're not lower class."

Choose one of the following statements:

1. I do not believe that there are upper and lower castes of anime fans.

2. I do believe there are upper and lower castes of anime fans.

In my own opinion people who don't recognize everything as being brainwashing because they give off a message

One more time: there is a difference between a message and brainwashing.

I'd rather be on the anime side where people don't patronize a person with such words.

That's right. anime fans NEVER run down American animation. Oh no. Every last one of them has the utmost respect for it. Uh huh.

If anything I'm trying to stop this stereotype that anti-anime supporters think we are. Because in truth we're not obsessive

Reading this exchange with me probably has done little to convince anti-anime supporters that you're not obsessed.

Thank you kindly

You're quite welcome. A few more rounds and you will be in total agreement with me. Then you can take up Recreational Anime Fan Baiting as a hobby.

"So, when you wrote that, you were not in fact denying the possibility that anime was unhealthy. You were in fact open to the possibility, you just wanted some evidence before making up your mind?"

Yes, if there was evidence proving this besides the pokemon incident then yes I would have considered it a legitament argument.

"Hmm. My theory about the insecurity of anime fans might be more accurate than even I suspected."

So are you saying that I'm the insecure one or are you saying that ALL anime fans are insecure?

"Sigh. To paraphrase: "There are lower class anime fans. But they're not lower class."

Choose one of the following statements:

1. I do not believe that there are upper and lower castes of anime fans.

2. I do believe there are upper and lower castes of anime fans."

I choose number one because that was the whole point I've been trying to make. I'm eliminating this so-called class system that you think anime fans use because it is non-existant just as I've been saying.

"One more time: there is a difference between a message and brainwashing."

Ah yes, but you see it is the message that does the brainwashing. That's why I connected the two because every message has the ability to brainwash an individual. However, it all depends on how you take the message as.

"That's right. anime fans NEVER run down American animation. Oh no. Every last one of them has the utmost respect for it. Uh huh."

Well yeah, if anime fans didn't like american animation as you say they do, then why do they like Spongebob, Invader Zim, or the Simpsons? Though there is one reason that anime fans dislike american animation and that is that it is either too childish or to cliche. I mean you can only see the Coyote fall off the cliff so many times before getting bored with it.

"Reading this exchange with me probably has done little to convince anti-anime supporters that you're not obsessed."

Who said that I'm trying to prove my obsession rating, I'm trying to prove that anime fans are human beings not animals or monsters as you seem to believe we are.

"You're quite welcome. A few more rounds and you will be in total agreement with me. Then you can take up Recreational Anime Fan Baiting as a hobby."

Yay! ::get's out fishing pole and puts a pokemon toy on the hook:: Yup those anime fans are sure biting today I reckon ::casts out the line:: woo wee I sure gots a big one ::reels in but gets pulled into the sea of anime fans:: aw mittens I lost it.

Actually you never really know, I'm pretty much neutral because I think there is right in both sides of this argument.

So are you saying that I'm the insecure one or are you saying that ALL anime fans are insecure?

All anime fans who respond to this argument are insecure. You are responding to this argument. Therefore, you are insecure. Sorry.

I choose number one because that was the whole point I've been trying to make. I'm eliminating this so-called class system that you think anime fans use because it is non-existant just as I've been saying.

If it doesn't exist, you can't eliminate it. I think what you mean to say is the -perception- of a class system. If that's what you're trying to do, who benefits more from this goal? Anime haters, who hate all anime and don't care if the anime community has an entire feudal system, or anime fans themselves, many of whom DO believe that other anime fans are beneath them? You're trying to combat poverty by giving charitable donations to families who live in Park Avenue penthouses.

You'll probably want proof of existence of the anime caste. If you've read this message board, you will see several instances of people insisting that it is only "certain kinds" of anime and anime fans that are the problem. Look at good ol' Otacon, who called Dragonball Z "Dragayball Z." Clearly, he thinks what he watches is superior to that, and himself superior by association.

Ah yes, but you see it is the message that does the brainwashing.

No. Brainwashing requires tremendous psychological pressure over a period of time, and often starvation, sleep deprivation, and physical torture. Sitting down to watch TV is not enough.

That's why I connected the two because every message has the ability to brainwash an individual. However, it all depends on how you take the message as.

So, it is not the message itself, it is the viewer. You'd have to be a pretty weak minded person to get brainwashed this way.

And your problem, Aethos, is that when you're finally pushed into a corner, you agree with what you've been denying you're saying. When I first said that there was a difference between a message and brainwashing, you asked when you'd even made that connection, basically denying that you ever did. I showed you where. Now you write "That's why I connected the two."

1. Well yeah, if anime fans didn't like american animation as you say they do, then why do they like Spongebob, Invader Zim, or the Simpsons?

2. Though there is one reason that anime fans dislike american animation and that is that it is either too childish or to cliche.

[Jason weeps bitterly in frustration.] You really should stop speaking in absolutes. Every time you do, you say something extremely questionable, and contradict yourself at least in part.

Who said that I'm trying to prove my obsession rating

Some guy named "Aethos" said that when he wrote:

If anything I'm trying to stop this stereotype that anti-anime supporters think we are. Because in truth we're not obsessive...

And you're losing ground. When we started this exchange, I said you weren't entirely sure what you were arguing. I am more convinced of this than ever. You've been half-convinced that anime is unhealthy and brainwashes people. If you believe that, you're going to have a hard time defending it and its fans.

"If it doesn't exist, you can't eliminate it. I think what you mean to say is the -perception- of a class system. If that's what you're trying to do, who benefits more from this goal?"

First off I can't eliminate it per se, however, I can eliminate it from the argument.

"Anime haters, who hate all anime and don't care if the anime community has an entire feudal system,"

Well they seem to care if they're trying to make us leave our happy little "feudal" system!

"or anime fans themselves, many of whom DO believe that other anime fans are beneath them?"

Yeah but who are these people to judge? I've been around these types of people. As I said in an earlier post, I used to be one of them but I've realized that no fan is below another. There is no "feudal" system in anime fandom seeing as how anime fans are all equal in what they like.

"You're trying to combat poverty by giving charitable donations to families who live in Park Avenue penthouses."

So are you saying I'm a corrupt member of the feudal society? Since anime fans are more on an equal basis I would think of us more as a democracy more than a feudal system. Especially since we don't have serfs or lords so technically we aren't a feudal system.

"You'll probably want proof of existence of the anime caste. If you've read this message board, you will see several instances of people insisting that it is only "certain kinds" of anime and anime fans that are the problem."

Ok fine, I've agreed that not all anime fans are mature human beings with respect for others likes. Then again it's like you're saying ALL anime fans are this way. You're stereotyping and that's where your argument is flaeed.

"Look at good ol' Otacon, who called Dragonball Z "Dragayball Z." Clearly, he thinks what he watches is superior to that, and himself superior by association."

Well he didn't go and say he's the supreme lord of all anime did he? I didn't see THAT part of his argument. Also that was just his opinion just because he doesn't like DBZ doesn't mean he doesn't like any of the other mainstream anime.

"No. Brainwashing requires tremendous psychological pressure over a period of time, and often starvation, sleep deprivation, and physical torture. Sitting down to watch TV is not enough."

Oh yeah? Then what about Barney or the teletubbies? You don't call that brainwashing? Heck, let's just sit a bunch of children in front of a TV and see what messages it brings off. Mainly it is to buy that particular show's merchandise and people will do it! It's not new to anyone else when you stop and think about it.

"So, it is not the message itself, it is the viewer. You'd have to be a pretty weak minded person to get brainwashed this way."

Yeah that's why they gear pokemon towards children, heck who's going to buy their products? Teens or children my money rests on children so there you have it.

"And your problem, Aethos, is that when you're finally pushed into a corner, you agree with what you've been denying you're saying."

Yes but there are times when I can agree to disagree.

"When I first said that there was a difference between a message and brainwashing, you asked when you'd even made that connection, basically denying that you ever did."

Oy that was stupid of me, good one

"[Jason weeps bitterly in frustration.] You really should stop speaking in absolutes."

Alright then let's just say this, anime fans love both japanese animation and american animation but there are certain things they dislike in both sectors of animation and in the case of american animation it's the fact that it's way to cliche and childish. Look at Disney they mainly develop their shows toward children and even the cartoons on cartoon network are full of the old Looney Tunes puns such as things like safe's or anvil's falling on people. or you have the occasional bad pun.
"Who said that I'm trying to prove my obsession rating

Some guy named "Aethos" said that when he wrote:

If anything I'm trying to stop this stereotype that anti-anime supporters think we are. Because in truth we're not obsessive..."

For crying out loud, that does not prove if I'am obsessed or not. My theory on this is that anti-anime supporters are nothing but arrogant, blind individuals who only seem to believe that anime fans are nothing but zombified robots made to waste their money on anime paraphenilia

"And you're losing ground. When we started this exchange, I said you weren't entirely sure what you were arguing. I am more convinced of this than ever."

Oh is that so, well then let's get the real argument started then.

"You've been half-convinced that anime is unhealthy and brainwashes people. If you believe that, you're going to have a hard time defending it and its fans."

Oh we shall see about that, we shall see

First off I can't eliminate it per se, however, I can eliminate it from the argument.

By not discussing it anymore? Yes, you certainly can.

Well they seem to care if they're trying to make us leave our happy little "feudal" system!

They're not. The ones who write Neanderthal things such as "anime is gay" just want to insult you safely through anonyminity of the Internet. The people at CoN do it just because it's so easy to get a rise out of anime fans (that insecurity thing again). (Another fun one: go to a NASCAR or Formula 1 racing fan and tell them car racing isn't a real sport. Then sit back, eat some Pringles, and watch the temper tantrum). Nobody cares if you stop watching anime or not.

"or anime fans themselves, many of whom DO believe that other anime fans are beneath them?"

Yeah but who are these people to judge? I've been around these types of people. As I said in an earlier post, I used to be one of them but I've realized that no fan is below another. There is no "feudal" system in anime fandom seeing as how anime fans are all equal in what they like.

The comment was "Anime fans themselves, many of whom DO believe that other anime fans are beneath them? You agree that such people exist, and in fact, you used to be one of them. In some Utopian anime socialist ideal they may be equal, but that is by no means the reality, because it is not a universal feeling within the anime community itself.

So are you saying I'm a corrupt member of the feudal society? Since anime fans are more on an equal basis I would think of us more as a democracy more than a feudal system.

Really? You have a leader elected through a popular vote? What's his/her name? Do you have an impeachment process?

And, no, I did not say you were a member of a feudal society. I said "Anime haters, who hate all anime and don't care if the anime community has an entire feudal system."

Ok fine, I've agreed that not all anime fans are mature human beings with respect for others likes. Then again it's like you're saying ALL anime fans are this way. You're stereotyping and that's where your argument is flaeed.

My argument is that anime lovers who post on this thread are insecure. Nothing I have said is "flaeed" or inconsistent with that premise.

Well he didn't go and say he's the supreme lord of all anime did he? I didn't see THAT part of his argument. Also that was just his opinion just because he doesn't like DBZ doesn't mean he doesn't like any of the other mainstream anime.

Immaterial. He has adapted a "me vs. them" mentality. This is better than that. In any case, you've clearly agreed with me. "I've agreed that not all anime fans are mature human beings with respect for others likes."

Then what about Barney or the teletubbies? You don't call that brainwashing?

No, I don't. Brainwashing is what the Khmer Rouge and religous cults do. If you want to end Pokemon "indoctrination" you turn off the TV and go outside. If you try that when the Khmer Rouge have you, you get a rifle butt to the back of the head.

Yes but there are times when I can agree to disagree.

[Brightens at this sign of hope] Why, if you did that, you would win this exchange, just like Otacon did.

Alot Anime fans act very immature. I stopped being a fan because of all this sub versus dub nonsense. I loved some subtitled and uncut anime but I recognized that some people just don't like it. They think the Japanese voices are irratingly high pitched. I hate Dragonball Z with a vengeance. I've seen the uncut version and I think it's just as stupid and childish as the dubbed(Toonami) version. Thanks too Gohan Son.refering to that foul-mouthed boy/girl who wrote a colorful diatribe about dubs. I've seen dubs and they ain't as awful as the Purists made them out to be. I don't like hentai or homoerotica either. I watch mostly kiddie anime and some adult anime. I like Battle Angel. I thought Akira was boring and didn't make any sense. I love the anime style. I just don't like perverted anime. I'm a big fan of the DIC version of Sailor Moon or should I say used to be a fan of SM. I've matured and I only watch anime every now and then. I think anime fans take anime too personally and too seriously. I'm fully aware of the mature fans. I just hate the elitism that most anime fans display. I don't hate nonfans because they have their reasons for hating anime. You don't have to see alot of anime to come to the conclusion that anime sucks. The Purists seem to make the bulk of the raving and rabid religious devotees of anime. I wish anime fans would leave the non fans be. I also wish they were as mature as this one DBZ fan I met at suncoast a rarity indeed. He was more mature and rational than any Anime fan I've encoutered. Kitt D is so right about anime and very mature about her Anime. She knows anime is just entertainment not enlightenment. I hate fans who learn to speak and Japanese for the explicit purpose of watching/ raw anime/manga. Anime is just a media. Not a way of life. Anime elitism is just the one of many curses of fandom. I hate the kids who say only Japan can make good animation the most. American Animation is better than Anime sometimes.

Anime is... strange to say the least. I used to have a shrine for anime and manga. Not anymore. I've calmed down a bit after some recent happenings. I still like anime. Now I do Judo!!! ;) I'm a white belt cuz I haven't gone to a practise yet. Because I haven't signed up. Wee.

"They're not. The ones who write Neanderthal things such as "anime is gay" just want to insult you safely through anonyminity of the Internet. The people at CoN do it just because it's so easy to get a rise out of anime fans (that insecurity thing again). (Another fun one: go to a NASCAR or Formula 1 racing fan and tell them car racing isn't a real sport. Then sit back, eat some Pringles, and watch the temper tantrum)."

Actually this is true, as I have done this in several situations myself to get a good laugh out of a person.

"Nobody cares if you stop watching anime or not."

Of course nobody cares if you stop watching anime but the people argue subjects like these is because of an impulse in their brain telling them that their opinions are right and all others are wrong.

The comment was "Anime fans themselves, many of whom DO believe that other anime fans are beneath them? You agree that such people exist, and in fact, you used to be one of them.

Yes but what I'am saying is that. I feel as though everyone who likes anime is on an equal ground thus there is no feudal system or social caste on which anime sits. It's more of a scale teetering back and forth. At some points it can be equal and at other times it can be unequal. Such is everything in life.

"Really? You have a leader elected through a popular vote? What's his/her name? Do you have an impeachment process?"

ha ha really funny, I'm saying that fandom is more of a democracy than a feudal system. Mainly on the basis that everyone is free to like what they want. Seriously, there are very few anime fans I have seen try to push their favorite anime down another anime fans throat and if they do that's more or less immature on their part. A primary example that I can think of is when me and a few other people were watching Tenchi on toonami. Everything was going all right when this DBZ fanatic came up and said that:

"DBZ is the only anime out there, all that other trash sucks!!"

We basically ignored him but he continued preaching on how DBZ was beneficial and how it is so much better than other "trash" as he called it. So that's possibly my best example of someone shoving another anime down someone's throat. However, if this was a feudal system as you say, wouldn't it have been the other way around? Surely since in your feudal society theory that it's the upper class of fans that does this. Wouldn't it have been me and the other people I was hanging out with being the ones to push anime down that DBZ fanatic's throat? Thus that is why I say this whole class system is non-existant because everyone get's their own say in what they like.

"And, no, I did not say you were a member of a feudal society. I said "Anime haters, who hate all anime and don't care if the anime community has an entire feudal system."

Well in my opinion you're implying that anime fans do rest on an entire feudal system.

"My argument is that anime lovers who post on this thread are insecure. Nothing I have said is "flaeed" or inconsistent with that premise."

Yes but it is because of the "I'm right, you're wrong" basis. That alone causes insecurity in a person's mind not obsession or anything else.

"In any case, you've clearly agreed with me. "I've agreed that not all anime fans are mature human beings with respect for others likes.""

Yes but as I said you can say that same thing with just about anyone. That NASCAR example you put up was a nice example to support this. As mainly fans who have to throw tantrums are the ones who don't respect the likes of others.

Is that so hmmm japanese animation not as good as american hmmm? Well check out these sites.

http://www.jessdoor.com/anime/why.html

http://www.jeddy.org/moi/anime/why.html

people argue subjects like these is because of an impulse in their brain telling them that their opinions are right and all others are wrong.

I ask again, can such people be cured by explaining to them that not all anime is Sailor Moon? Do they then say "Ok, thank you very much for setting me straight. My previously declaration that 'Anime is gay' was misinformed, as so beautifully illustrated by your touching and eloquent argument. It is a legitimate art form and I offer a complete retraction of my previous statement." Or do they write rebuttals such as "You're gay too"?

I feel as though everyone who likes anime is on an equal ground thus there is no feudal system or social caste on which anime sits. It's more of a scale teetering back and forth. At some points it can be equal and at other times it can be unequal.

The equal ground can be both equal and unequal?

Well in my opinion you're implying that anime fans do rest on an entire feudal system.

Here's another opinion: the Roman Empire is still in existence today. It happens to be incorrect.

if this was a feudal system as you say, wouldn't it have been the other way around?

Maybe Jason won't notice the slight of hand where I go from identifying the feudal system comment as something he "implied" to it being something "as you say" and finally to "your feudal society theory."

I repeat, the comment in full was "I think what you mean to say is the -perception- of a class system. If that's what you're trying to do, who benefits more from this goal? Anime haters, who hate all anime and don't care if the anime community has an entire feudal system, or anime fans themselves, many of whom DO believe that other anime fans are beneath them?"

This "feudal society" comparison is facetiousness. The use of the word "if" alone should have been the clue.

We basically ignored him

Now that was the smart move. You should incorporate this philosophy on a wider scale.

Surely since in your feudal society theory that it's the upper class of fans that does this. Wouldn't it have been me and the other people I was hanging out with being the ones to push anime down that DBZ fanatic's throat?

As I said, it wasn't my theory. However, it's tempting to adopt it as a theory when you write stuff like that. Let me get this straight. A Dragonball Z fan mouths off about the supposed superiority of that show. You do not respond. Now you ask, "Surely since in your feudal society theory that it's the upper class of fans that does this. Wouldn't it have been me and the other people I was hanging out with being the ones to push anime down that DBZ fanatic's throat?"

This very question you ask implies that you think you're the Upper Class, and that Dragonball Z is the lower form of animation! Don't believe me? If you don't look down on Dragonball Z and its followers, why didn't your question go like this: "A Dragonball Z fan was behaving like a feudal lord, proclaiming that his show was better than all others. If your feudal society theory is true, why didn't we all bow down to his wisdom?" It's very telling that you assumed your crowd would be the upper class in your analogy, pushing your view down to the other fan. Priceless.

Aethos: his own worst enemy.

Yes but it is because of the "I'm right, you're wrong" basis. That alone causes insecurity in a person's mind not obsession or anything else.

Ah, so you acknowledge the insecurity. Good. It's the first step on the road to a cure. Now let me ask you this: why should they care what anyone thinks?

That NASCAR example you put up was a nice example to support this. As mainly fans who have to throw tantrums are the ones who don't respect the likes of others.

The NASCAR example is not about respecting someone's preference. It's about the racing fan being so insecure (like the anime fan) that he responds to the slightest bit of provocation with a rant. The correct response to someone who says "Race car driving isn't a real sport" is not "blah blah years of training blah blah they sweat off pounds while driving blah blah split second reflexes..." The correct response is "How utterly fascinating. Would you like a coke?"

This is also the correct response when someone runs down another form of entertainment. Can you guess which one?

“I ask again, can such people be cured by explaining to them that not all anime is Sailor Moon? Do they then say "Ok, thank you very much for setting me straight."”

Once again that's not what I'm pushing for; you keep bringing this up though. Why is that? Do you believe every anime fan tries to convert everyone into watching anime? I haven't tried this once to prior knowledge but hey prove me wrong I'm expecting that.
"My previously declaration that 'Anime is gay' was misinformed, as so beautifully illustrated by your touching and eloquent argument."

::In equally sarcastic tone:: Well gee thanks, I feel so appreciated.

"It is a legitimate art form and I offer a complete retraction of my previous statement." Or do they write rebuttals such as "You're gay too"?"

Ooo that's a tough one let me think about that.....I would believe they would call that person gay as well. Mainly because you can't persuade someone to do anything they don't want to.

"The equal ground can be both equal and unequal?"

In other words, there are cases when every anime fan can agree on a series and like it, then there are series that are more diverse and cause anime fans to disagree with each other. The more diverse cases is when balance shifts into a non-equal state.

"This very question you ask implies that you think you're the Upper Class, and that Dragonball Z is the lower form of animation! Don't believe me?"

Nope not at all, I wasn't implying that.

"If you don't look down on Dragonball Z and its followers, why didn't your question go "like this: "A Dragonball Z fan was behaving like a feudal lord, proclaiming that his show was better than all others. If your feudal society theory is true, why didn't we all bow down to his wisdom?""

No you had me partly right there, however, I'm saying that if your feudal society theory is true then wouldn't me being so "upper class" as you put it. Push what I like down that Dragonball Z fan's throat while completely demeaning what he likes. That is what I would call a part of feudal society. The way you put it was totally off I respect Dragonball Z fans, in fact I happen to like the show myself. So calling me upper class on that issue is more than meaningless.

"It's very telling that you assumed your crowd would be the upper class in your analogy, pushing your view down to the other fan. Priceless."

Oh, so what you wanted me to tell you something full of fiction rather than a real life story. Gee what a concept.

"I repeat, the comment in full was "I think what you mean to say is the -perception- of a class system. If that's what you're trying to do, who benefits more from this goal? Anime haters, who hate all anime and don't care if the anime community has an entire feudal system, or anime fans themselves, many of whom DO believe that other anime fans are beneath them?""

And I repeat, it seems to me that you seem to think or believe that a perception is there. If the message is facetiousness as you say it is. You wouldn't have said this:

"Who benefits more from this goal? Anime haters, who hate all anime and don't care if the anime community has an entire feudal system, or anime fans themselves, many of whom DO believe that other anime fans are beneath them?""

This statement alone proves that you believe a perception is there. Thus you believe the perception exists and that is why you're willing to bring up this opinion that there are social castes in anime fandom.

"This "feudal society" comparison is facetiousness. The use of the word "if" alone should have been the clue."

Seems more like you were asking me a question, rather then making a false statement. The word "if" is used six different ways in the dictionary, so if you were trying to make this statement without implying that a perception exists you could have said it like this.

Change: If that's what you're trying to do

To: Assuming that's what you're trying to do

That sounds more plausible and doesn't make you come off as implying anything.

"The NASCAR example is not about respecting someone's preference."

Could have fooled me, you seem to relate NASCAR fans to anime fans.

"It's about the racing fan being so insecure (like the anime fan)"

AH! See you just related the two, thus you're saying that because anime fans don't respect other people's preferences because of their insecurity, NASCAR fans don't either because of their insecurity.
“that he responds to the slightest bit of provocation with a rant. The correct response to someone who says "Race car driving isn't a real sport" is not "blah blah years of training blah blah they sweat off pounds while driving blah blah split second reflexes..." The correct response is "How utterly fascinating. Would you like a coke?"”

Then again you went and bashed me for ignoring that DBZ fanatic because of that “feudal system” theory. So let me get this straight. You’re saying that it’s ok to ignore someone who rants because they’re immature. Yet these people are possibly being lower class in that area of entertainment because of their ranting. So then in all means, you would be considering yourself to be upper class in that NASCAR situation. Not on the basis that you ignore them. Mainly on the basis that you classify mainly anyone who rants as being part of the lower class. Granted this whole lower class/upper class scenario started with that somewhat facetious statement you made earlier. However, since then a definition of what you would call upper and lower class is being made as we continue discussing this.

Once again that's not what I'm pushing for; you keep bringing this up though. Why is that?

Because I’m curious as to what you’re doing here. Apparently you’re here to defend anime fans. Originally you appeared to deny that anime was unhealthy. Now you acknowledge that there is evidence to support that theory. Then you agreed that there are anime fans who are immature and look down upon other anime fans. You also said that there are insecure anime fans. Bang up job of defending anime fans so far, I must say.

Mainly because you can't persuade someone to do anything they don't want to.

This from a person who believes “Ah yes, but you see it is the message that does the brainwashing.”

In other words, there are cases when every anime fan can agree on a series and like it, then there are series that are more diverse and cause anime fans to disagree with each other. The more diverse cases is when balance shifts into a non-equal state.

And when they disagree, there is significant faction of anime fans who will insult the other anime fans they perceive as being lesser than them, because they follow a show they don't like. They will especially do this for anime haters, because their insecurity wants them to find something to placate the attacker. “Oh, don’t associate me with THOSE anime fans. Yes, you’re right, they surely do suck, but I don’t.” Hence Otacon’s “Dragayball Z” remark. It was his way of saying “See, I’m not a loser. I don’t like that show. We have something in common.”

if your feudal society theory

How utterly fascinating. Would you like a coke?

Oh, so what you wanted me to tell you something full of fiction rather than a real life story. Gee what a concept.

What a concept indeed. Nice ducking of the issue. You put together an analogy. In the analogy, you essentially ask “Why did I not take a superior position, look down on the Dragonball Z fan, and correct him? Because I did not take a superior position, this is evidence that the feudal society doesn’t exist.”

What I am asking you is that why, in your analogy, did you not look at it from the opposite view? As in, the mouthy fan was the upper class one, pushing his theory down your throat, you being the serf? That suggests to me that you’re used to perceiving your tastes as above the others.

And I repeat, it seems to me that you seem to think or believe that a perception is there. If the message is facetiousness as you say it is. You wouldn't have said this:

How utterly fascinating. Would you like a coke?

This statement alone proves that you believe a perception is there.

I do not believe in a feudal society, despite your efforts to convince me that one exists. I do however believe that there is a significant faction of anime fans that believe what they watch is better than what other anime fans watch. You agreed that such fans exist, and you used to be one of them.

Quite frankly, the anime community would have to be far more organized than it is to be considered a feudal society. It’s far too chaotic.

"The NASCAR example is not about respecting someone's preference."
Could have fooled me, you seem to relate NASCAR fans to anime fans.

I AM relating NASCAR fans to anime fans. The ones that respond to obvious baiting, like anime fans, are insecure.

AH! See you just related the two, thus you're saying that because anime fans don't respect other people's preferences because of their insecurity, NASCAR fans don't either because of their insecurity.

Yes, I relate them. But you went too far there. It is possible to like NASCAR and not look down on other sports, yet still be outraged when someone claims it isn’t a real sport. You will notice in my fake NASCAR rant I didn’t add “blah blah baseball is the one that isn't a real sport…”

Oh wait. I should clarify that I am actually not saying that I believe baseball isn’t a real sport. Wouldn’t want you to miss the facetiousness as you did with the feudal comment.

Then again you went and bashed me for ignoring that DBZ fanatic because of that “feudal system” theory.

I didn’t bash you, unless you consider “that was the smart thing to do” bashing. I was not being sarcastic there, I meant it. Ignoring him was exactly what you should have done.

In 1992, singer Sinead O’Connor sang a song on a Saturday Night Live. Following her singing, she held up a picture of Pope John Paul II, declared “Fight the real enemy” and tore up the picture. The incident caused massive backlash from Catholic groups and set her career back centuries.

What did the Pope’s office itself say about the incident?

Not a thing. I’ve been looking, and I cannot find evidence that the Pope’s office even acknowledged the incident. Some Catholic groups did, but the Pope himself didn’t rise to the bait.

Now, who looked classy out of that incident, and who look liked they were throwing a temper tantrum?

"Because I’m curious as to what you’re doing here. Apparently you’re here to defend anime fans. Originally you appeared to deny that anime was unhealthy. Now you acknowledge that there is evidence to support that theory.

Yes because there was evidence shown that supports that theory. However, the one big flaw in your evidence is that it was only ONE situation and might I add the most used situation in every anti-anime argument I've seen which tries to prove that anime is unhealthy. So over all since that was only one incident the evidence doesn't prove anything. Now if there were more incidents then yes that argument would be credible.

"Then you agreed that there are anime fans who are immature and look down upon other anime fans."

That's based more on common sense, this isn't 12th grade AP Calculus ya know. Real life experiences and common logic can tell you that.

"You also said that there are insecure anime fans."

Yes but these are the fans who make immature comments. Then again the same can be said for anti-anime supporters who feel the need to combat these immature arguments with ones of their own.

"This from a person who believes “Ah yes, but you see it is the message that does the brainwashing.”"

Well you can't persuade others that much is true but now you're going into in a totally different direction.

First off what is the definition of brainwashing

"The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation."

Now let's go back to what I said.

"Ah yes, but you see it is the message that does the brainwashing. That's why I connected the two because every message has the ability to brainwash an individual. However, it all depends on how you take the message as."

What I'm talking about here is not peer pressure, but repeated suggestion. My theory is this. Media uses the power of repeated suggestion in order to persuade people to buy their products. Many consider these subliminal messages if you want to get more specific. For example home shopping networks will say that their products are selling like mad and that the phones are off the hook with customers galore but is this really the case? Heck no, the reason they say that over and over again is because if they make the public believe the product is selling then more people will call in to actually buy it. Thus the power of repeated suggestion at work.

But it doesn't stop with just informercials and home shopping channels no it goes on into every form of media. Why do you think parents of the 80's advocated rock music, because they believed there were subliminal messages in there that were repeated enough to make the listener believe whatever the message was. In the case with advocates of rock music, they were claiming that there were satanic subliminal messages and that if it continued teens would begin to follow satanism. That is another power of repeated suggestion to develop a certain belief or motivation.

Next that pop example I brought up earlier, about how teenage girls were dressing in smutty clothing because of people like Britney Spears and Christina Agulera. The whole point of that statement was this. You have to admit that everytime a female pop star performs on tv, no matter who it is they wear very revealing clothing. Pop fans who will continuallly view in to see these stars perform will see them dress this way and thus think that if they dress like pop stars they'll be as glamourous or as beautiful as them. The message didn't need to be spoken there, it was brought forth by image and that is just one more example of how repeated suggestion which is a form of brainwashing by the definition can be put into many different kinds of wave length. You have to remember though that not all messages are spoken.

"And when they disagree, there is significant faction of anime fans who will insult the other anime fans they perceive as being lesser than them, because they follow a show they don't like."

Yes this is called differentiating opinion also it is called being immature.

"They will especially do this for anime haters, because their insecurity wants them to find something to placate the attacker."

However, this is a form of defense to show that the anime fan in question is mature in his argument. That doesn't say anything about if the anime fan in question loves or hates the immature fans they claim to not be.

"“Oh, don’t associate me with THOSE anime fans. Yes, you’re right, they surely do suck, but I don’t.”"

No they don't suck, they can like what they want to like. I can be associated as being one of them in the past and I will admit that. So I don't think I need to judge them.

"Hence Otacon’s “Dragayball Z” remark. It was his way of saying “See, I’m not a loser. I don’t like that show. We have something in common.”"

following what you said, yes I believe he was looking for some common ground. Sort of an equal plain on which you could both agree. Besides he said this about one anime are you going to hold that against him? It's not like he did the same thing to all other anime on TV.

"How utterly fascinating. Would you like a coke?"

Not really I'm more of a mountain dew person, but I do enjoy the occasional vanilla coke.

"What a concept indeed. Nice ducking of the issue. You put together an analogy. In the analogy, you essentially ask “Why did I not take a superior position, look down on the Dragonball Z fan, and correct him? Because I did not take a superior position, this is evidence that the feudal society doesn’t exist.”"

Exactly you got my point on that.

"What I am asking you is that why, in your analogy, did you not look at it from the opposite view? As in, the mouthy fan was the upper class one, pushing his theory down your throat, you being the serf? That suggests to me that you’re used to perceiving your tastes as above the others."

I understand that and yes I should have looked at it from that perspective. Except in the rules of feudal society Serfs were under lords am I correct? So in this feudal anime society we would see that anime fans who like more than one anime would likely be lords to those who only like one. In you're example you're saying why wasn't the Dragonball Z fan the lord?

In the anime feudal society if you like more than one anime then you would be a lord. The DBZ fan would be considered the serf because he only liked DBZ and wasn't willing to try different types of anime. In other words he could become a lord but chooses not too because he is reluctant to change and is unsure of his own insecurities.

So considering that we've built this scenario up to this point. Let's move on, so my group including me would be the lords since we liked DBZ yet we also liked a numerous amount of other anime as well. So in this case you have to go by the perspective that the group is the lords while the DBZ fanatic is the serf.

However, you forget that in feudal society a serf could never become anything more than a serf unless the lord would allow him his own property. This is where the feudal society theory falls apart. In the scenario the DBZ fanatic could move up from being a serf to a lord if he allowed himself to do so. Which means he would have to open himself up to more anime's. So in other words the group has nothing to do with whether he stays a DBZ fanatic or if he opens himself to new anime's and new possibilites over all becoming a more mature fan with a wide knowledge of anime outside of the TV.

"I do not believe in a feudal society, despite your efforts to convince me that one exists. I do however believe that there is a significant faction of anime fans that believe what they watch is better than what other anime fans watch. You agreed that such fans exist, and you used to be one of them."

Yes but I was one of them when I was 14 and in my freshman year of High School. It's been four years since them and I've grown up from that point.

"Quite frankly, the anime community would have to be far more organized than it is to be considered a feudal society. It’s far too chaotic."

Well it isn't exactly radical or pacifist if you mean that.

"Yes, I relate them. But you went too far there. It is possible to like NASCAR and not look down on other sports,"

Oy that's not what I've seen. Classmates of mine who are NASCAR fans think all other sports suck besides Wrestling.

"yet still be outraged when someone claims it isn’t a real sport. You will notice in my fake NASCAR rant I didn’t add “blah blah baseball is the one that isn't a real sport…”"

Yes but you were explaining how they will rant to prove their point. Though mainly I've seen more Wrestling fans do this but yet even then they were also degrating other sports. In my opinion the reason why any side of an issue will degrade the other side is because it will make them seem better then their rivals. Why do you think around the time of elections for senators or even our own president that all these negative campaign commercials appear on TV. To make the other side look bad and to make them look good and in actuality this is just one more case of repeated suggestion to develop a belief or motivation.

"Not a thing. I’ve been looking, and I cannot find evidence that the Pope’s office even acknowledged the incident. Some Catholic groups did, but the Pope himself didn’t rise to the bait."

That's because the pope probably saw that as a joke and not a serious statement. After all this is Saturday Night Live we're talking about. When do they ever do a serious political statement?

I can't believe it! Two people are actually having a more or less INTELLIGENT debate. *clap clap* I think we could all learn something from these two.

However, the one big flaw in your evidence is that it was only ONE situation and might I add the most used situation in every anti-anime argument I've seen which tries to prove that anime is unhealthy.

You would have found an even bigger flaw had you read the article. The article shows that the epilepsy explanation for the incident was hardly conclusive, and in fact makes a good case for a mass hysteria explanation.

In all this, you have never thought to ask me if I actually believed anime was unhealthy.

"Then you agreed that there are anime fans who are immature and look down upon other anime fans."

That's based more on common sense, this isn't 12th grade AP Calculus ya know. Real life experiences and common logic can tell you that.

Anime fans, may I present to you your champion, Aethos, who has just said that not only are there immature anime fans, "common logic" could have told you this.

Perhaps someone should help him out here. If he keeps this up, he's going to get watching anime made into a criminal offense.

"You also said that there are insecure anime fans."

Yes but these are the fans who make immature comments.

You mean like this one, for example? "That's such a controversial statement! How is anime unhealthy? Are there medical records proving this? C'mon lets see some proof! You know I could also say that sports, music, and even television are unhealthy tools used to brainwash the ignorant masses."

Then again the same can be said for anti-anime supporters who feel the need to combat these immature arguments with ones of their own.

It's immature to post anti-anime comments. It's immature to respond to them. Aethos knows this, but he can't stop writing back.

Well you can't persuade others that much is true but now you're going into in a totally different direction.

"The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation."

Let me cut through the lengthy nonsense about popstars and ask how you can say "you can't persuade others that much is true" in one breath and then go on about the pop music performers sending out messages that influence children to buy blue jeans, Pepsi, or feudal societies in the next.

Brainwashing requires not just repeated suggestion. It requires psychological and often physical torture. Brainwashing subjects are often not allowed to sleep, and starved. They are removed from all other influences. The makers of Chlorox bleach, Britney Spears, and Pokemon have yet to do this in an attempt to increase sales. Although for the record, if Shakira wanted to kidnap me and subject me to torture, I would not object.

Furthermore, brainwashing puts forward a very specific message which leaves little room for interpretation. Pop cultures' messages, while often heavy handed and obvious, are far more ambiguous. I have no doubt that Pepsi hopes that kids will buy Pepsi after seeing Britney Spears in a Super Bowl commerical. But they don't have nearly as much control over the message they send when they make these commericals, because they are open to interpretation, misinterpretation, and debate. Maybe a young girl see's Britney's hairdo in the commercial and wants one likes it, yet continues to drink iced tea. Young Britney haters might decide to drink Coke, simply because Coke is Pepsi's competitor. This is an indirect message, but its possible the commerical may produce this result. David Berkowitz, the serial killer known as the Son of Sam, once claimed that his neighbor's dog was giving him messages to kill. Berkowitz probably misinterpreted these messages. The dog probably just wanted to be fed, or to go for walkies.

Brainwashing is not so ambiguous. You don't debate with a Khmer Rouge officer over whether naming five of your friends as spies is actually for the good of the party or not. You do it, or they leave you hanging by your toenails until you see it their way.

But you know what, ignore all that. In addition to not asking if I thought anime was unhealthy, you never asked me if I personally thought that anime or any other form of media was brainwashing, or even overly persuasive.

However, this is a form of defense to show that the anime fan in question is mature in his argument. That doesn't say anything about if the anime fan in question loves or hates the immature fans they claim to not be.

If we take Otacon as an example, he called a show "Dragayball Z." He said only kids would like that show. That was a mild one. One this very message board, another person who liked anime--LIKED anime, mind you--wrote "These retarded females would TRY to dress like them Anime character like almost everyday! Your typical SHORT ASS skirt, dyed hair--Blue, Pink, Purple, Orange, Red... stupid Sailor Moon backpacks..." Those are just two examples, on this board. I think you believe when I say I could find more if I looked.

I don't think these people have any great love for the fans of these shows.

In you're example you're saying why wasn't the Dragonball Z fan the lord?

Exactly. Why did you not relegate him to the higher position? After all, he was the one on the offensive. According to you, he went on about the superiority of his show over all others without provication.

so my group including me would be the lords since we liked DBZ yet we also liked a numerous amount of other anime as well.

This doesn't sound very equal to me. But then again, according to you, the anime playing community is on equal ground that is sometimes equal and sometimes unequal.

you forget that in feudal society a serf could never become anything more than a serf unless the lord would allow him his own property.

I forget nothing. A serf can also rise above his station by overthrowing the old regime.

This is where the feudal society theory falls apart. In the scenario the DBZ fanatic could move up from being a serf to a lord if he allowed himself to do so. Which means he would have to open himself up to more anime's. So in other words the group has nothing to do with whether he stays a DBZ fanatic or if he opens himself to new anime's and new possibilites over all becoming a more mature fan with a wide knowledge of anime outside of the TV.

So there is in fact an anime caste system, even if it is not feudal. A person who likes one anime show cannot be considered equal to someone who likes several. Doesn't sound very democratic to me.

"Yes, I relate them. But you went too far there. It is possible to like NASCAR and not look down on other sports,"

Oy that's not what I've seen.

You have only encountered racing fans who cannot handle criticism of their sport. I have encountered racing fans who can. When I baited one in particular by saying it wasn't a real sport, he said "Rough day at work Jason?" and then calmly slipped in a tape of a race he had recorded the night before. It was the perfect response.

In my opinion the reason why any side of an issue will degrade the other side is because it will make them seem better then their rivals.

Yes, that certainly is a possible motivation. It doesn't work, does it?

That's because the pope probably saw that as a joke and not a serious statement. After all this is Saturday Night Live we're talking about. When do they ever do a serious political statement?

"On 22 September 1997, in an interview with the Italian weekly newspaper Vita, [O'Connor] asked the Holy Father to forgive her. She claimed that her attack on the photo had been "a ridiculous act, the gesture of a girl rebel," which she did "because I was in rebellion against the faith, but I was still within the faith."

I saw the event on live television. It was no joke. She was dead serious. She tore up the photo and stormed angrily offstage. O'Connor, raised Catholic and bitter about it, was viciously anti-Catholic and anti-establishment at the time. She certainly did not tell SNL about it. The FCC later fined NBC $2.5 million dollars for it, and to this day they will not allow that footage to be aired. Syndicated repeats of the episode have been heavily censored.

Years later, she's the one whose sorry and is struggling to keep a career. Pope, sick as he is, is still hanging in there. And when he's gone, there will be another to replace him.

So, one more time. Ignoring the right or wrong of what was said or the message being sent, who looked better coming out of this incident? The woman who abused someone's trust to send an unsanctioned message (and a somewhat cowardly one, I would have ripped the picture and then started to sing, not ripped it and then taken off), or the intended target who ignored the attack?

I like Inu Yasha. As I stated earlier I hate elitism in Anime fandom. That Page is definitley written by a Hardcore Otaku. I love American Animation more than Anime because very few of the ones I know have homoerotica. Name one Anime that doesn't have homoerotica or heavy sexual overtones and I might change my views about Anime being overrated. I don't like Homo Romance either.Mmm Kay.

"As I stated earlier I hate elitism in Anime fandom"

Understandable, and as I said earlier I used to be one of those immature anime fans who call themselves purists. However, unlike them I didn't see it as a religion which is probably the reason I grew out of that purist state. I still love anime, but there will always be fanboys and fangirls. The majority of whom think that Goku from DBZ is some sort of god. Also these are the people who CAN'T accept critisism of their favorite show.

Now if you were to tell me that "Ranma sucks" or "Inu Yasha sucks" or even if you told me that "Excel saga sucks" I wouldn't hold it against you. Mainly I'd just shrug off that comment.

let's take another scenario with that DBZ fanatic I told Jason about.

DBZ fanatic: DBZ is like the coolest show on tv, it's way cooler than any of that other crappy anime.

Me: ::reading a ranma manga:: facsinating

DBZ Fanatic: And do you want to know why it's cool? Well I'll tell you because in the subbed version there's cussing and lots of blood now that's friggin awesome!

Me: ::continues reading:: Yeah whatever

DBZ Fanatic: Why are you wasting your time on Ranma 1/4 or whatever the hell the name of that gay manga is, you should be reading DBZ manga cause it's cooler. Oh and I can tell you everything about DBZ because I know everything there is to know because I know Akira Torymiya and you know if Akira Torymiya saw you reading something other than DBZ he'd beat the crap out of you because DBZ is the only true anime in existance and everything else sucks. Everything else sucks so much that I would never waste my time even watching five minutes of anything else because only DBZ is cool.

Me: ::Walks away while DBZ Fanatic continues to rant::

From the example above, these are the types of fans I usually get annoyed with. This alone is why I agree with Jason's statement that there are some anime fans that DO think of others lower then them. As I said it's common logic that will tell you that. What I'am mainly trying to prove is that not all anime fans are like the DBZ Fanatic in the above scenario. That there are mature fans who do respect both sides of the issue. That is what I'am trying to make clear.

"I love American Animation more than Anime because very few of the ones I know have homoerotica"

The only reason this is, is because american cartoons are basically leaned towards little kids. For example there were parents ranting that Tinky Winky was homosexual so they wanted Teletubbies off the air. Another example of this would be Ren and Stimpy don't believe me? Here's the article

http://www.freedomdomain.com/mindcontrolprop/mediavirus.html

and here's the quote in question

"The original version of the show also daringly opened other locked closets of our social psyche. Homosexuality, perhaps our deepest, darkest cultural dust bunny, was the issue that got "The Ren & Stimpy Show" in the most trouble. Ren and Stimpy are not necessarily gay, but there are many suggestions even in current episodes that they are more than just friends. The dog and cat live together, sleep in the same bed, bathe together, and
assume the roles of a husband and wife. Theirs is a domestic American life, and their relationship is often depicted as overly codependent. If anything, by not explicitly mentioning the boys' sexuality, the show is telling us that their sexuality is just a part of their lives and no big deal. But as a meme within the cultural virus of the show, their gayness has been exploited quite deliberately."

So in short, don't assume that every anime is full of Homoerotica while American animation is free from this. Because that in itself is false.

"Name one Anime that doesn't have homoerotica or heavy sexual overtones and I might change my views about Anime being overrated."

Wait, you fail to realize something. American animation omits stuff like homoerotica because they never want children to know about stuff like that. Why do you think there is such heavy censorship for anime's on TV? From what I gathered it comes out to this. Parents don't want children to grow up knowing that there are issues such as homosexuality, racism, drugs, or abuse of any kind in society today. Parents will do this by making sure their children won't watch anything which implies anything of the real world such as Barney. As it comes to people over in Japan, they are a different culture from us and are more open with these things. Which is why the use of Shonen-ai in anime is no big deal over there. Now as for anime over here you could consider Cowboy Bebop to not have any references to homo erotica in it.

"I don't like Homo Romance either.Mmm Kay."

Well neither do I, in fact I highly dislike homo romance because I believe that sort of thing is disgusting and tasteless. However, that's not the point of this argument. The point of this argument was that Japanese animation is not the only type of animation that will show signs of homosexuality. Because when you look at it, American animation in itself can be just as bad.

"You would have found an even bigger flaw had you read the article. The article shows that the epilepsy explanation for the incident was hardly conclusive, and in fact makes a good case for a mass hysteria explanation."

Yes, but the fact that all of the other pokemon epsidoes as well as all anime's in general that use these lighting effects. Never had a case like this before. As stated here it seems as though that one episode is the only exception.

"None of the children had a previous history of convulsions before the Pokémon episode, and all were found to be more sensitive to rapid color changes than monochromatic ones. All were considered to have PSE."

This is saying that it was not only the rapid change of colors but it was the pattern itself. If you remember the pattern was red and blue, these children in particular may have only been sensitive to those two colors and when the colors flashed rapidly. That sensitiveness became too over bearing and caused the body to go into a seizure.

"In all this, you have never thought to ask me if I actually believed anime was unhealthy."

Alright then do you believe anime is unhealthy? Since you seemed so quick to bring up evidence I kind of assumed that you agreed with that statement.

"Perhaps someone should help him out here. If he keeps this up, he's going to get watching anime made into a criminal offense."

In your dreams maybe.

"You mean like this one, for example? "That's such a controversial statement! How is anime unhealthy? Are there medical records proving this? C'mon lets see some proof! You know I could also say that sports, music, and even television are unhealthy tools used to brainwash the ignorant masses.""

So you're calling my original statement to be immature when all I asked for is evidence? This from someone who doesn't believe anime is unhealthy yet will supply evidence to support it is.

"It's immature to post anti-anime comments. It's immature to respond to them. Aethos knows this, but he can't stop writing back."

Well if you're going to go on that logic, then you're calling yourself immature then. Gee I was under the impression that you weren't one of those people who would post anti-anime comments.

"Let me cut through the lengthy nonsense about popstars and ask how you can say "you can't persuade others that much is true""

Well let's see, what I meant there is not that you can never persuade others that would be false. You can persuade others BUT you can't persuade those who are not willing to give your side a chance.

"in one breath and then go on about the pop music performers sending out messages that influence children to buy blue jeans, Pepsi, or feudal societies in the next."

mainly because with repeated suggestion. The basis is not to persuade someone into buying those products. The thing about repeated suggestion is that, the message is repeated so much that it get's into your brain and interprets this message as being correct. Thus I'am correct on my examples.

"Brainwashing requires not just repeated suggestion. It requires psychological and often physical torture. Brainwashing subjects are often not allowed to sleep, and starved. They are removed from all other influences."

So then on that logic, we could look back into history and say that the spanish inquisition, as well as the Salem witch trials were both forms of brainwashing. Especially since the basis of both were torture in order to make somebody agree to what the government wanted them to agree to.

"The makers of Chlorox bleach, Britney Spears, and Pokemon have yet to do this in an attempt to increase sales."

They may not have considered torture, but you have to admit that increase in sales comes from appearances, influences, as well as hidden messages. I wouldn't be surprised if in every commercial. The screen flashes words like

"Buy this product, buy it now!"

so fast that you may not be able to see it with the naked eye but your mind would pick it up and interpret it is. As

"Yes you should buy this product, you should go out and buy it now"

That is how repeated suggestion works to increase sales.

"But they don't have nearly as much control over the message they send when they make these commericals,"

Of course they do, they're the ones making the commercials, they're the ones who write the script, hire the actors, produce and direct it as well as designing costumes. They have control over the content, but the message which you pointed out is a different story. However, the content is what determines the message.

"because they are open to interpretation, misinterpretation, and debate."

Yes, which is what I was talking about above.

And by reading this,

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial/son/sonmain.htm

I have also determined that he was completely insane. When you're insane your brain can do many confusing things like mix messages. Or in some cases make a person delusional to actually believe something is happening when it isn't. Repeated suggestion would not work here because of the person's brain being in a metaphorac term "scrambled" So I agree with that statement because of the fact that Berkowitz was indeed insane thus the messages his brain would receive would not be the correct ones. From what I'm guessing an insane person would possibly think the opposite of a statement, so in a sense you could say they're like Bizarro Superman. This isn't their fault though it's more or less a mental condition.

"Brainwashing is not so ambiguous. You don't debate with a Khmer Rouge officer over whether naming five of your friends as spies is actually for the good of the party or not."

Who knows, you might. If it goes against your principles.

"You do it, or they leave you hanging by your toenails until you see it their way."

It depends on your principles. Not everything is yes or no. Even if it was there is still that reason of why it is yes or no and so in a fit of rage you might just backlash the officer and ask them

"What good will it do if I name five of my friends as spies?"

For all you know they'd probably leave you hang there even if you did tell them.

"If we take Otacon as an example, he called a show "Dragayball Z." He said only kids would like that show. That was a mild one. One this very message board, another person who liked anime--LIKED anime, mind you--wrote "These retarded females would TRY to dress like them Anime character like almost everyday! Your typical SHORT ASS skirt, dyed hair--Blue, Pink, Purple, Orange, Red... stupid Sailor Moon backpacks..." Those are just two examples, on this board. I think you believe when I say I could find more if I looked."

Well then again someone on this message board said this

Subject: The Essay On Anime Sucks Is the Best Thing Since The Wheel By: RealityWhisper Time: October 22, 2002 8:41 PM

You made your point there perfectly. Especially when you described the asswipe faces and expressions of anime characters, the sorry wobbling before the expression, and the running-on-the-moon example. I could relate to all of that. The anime fans are also so brainwashed and "assholic", that they don't know whats better for themselves. It is by far the worst type of cartoon I have ever seen. There is only one thing that I disagree with: you said that anime is the next best thing to a giant enima. I think a giant enima is the next best thing to anime.

-A glimpse of reality-
by RealityWhisper

or we could bring up another example with another anti anime supporter who said this.

Subject: yeh...me agrees too By: whispers Time: June 09, 2002 4:58 PM

When John Glenn returns from space, everybody dress in Ape Suits. <<<<<<<<<<

secondly, hell with thoe lame motherfuking anime...go make porn or sumthing better ..|..

"I don't think these people have any great love for the fans of these shows."

Well gee with those comments I placed up above, it seems to me that the anti-anime supporters are just as disrespectful of fans and these shows.

"Exactly. Why did you not relegate him to the higher position? After all, he was the one on the offensive. According to you, he went on about the superiority of his show over all others without provication."

Because how can he back up his statement that his shows are way better than ours, if he never gave ours a chance. Yet we give his a chance. So how would he be in the higher position.

"I forget nothing. A serf can also rise above his station by overthrowing the old regime."

Yes by way of revolution, but then again when will you ever see this happening with anime fans? There may be some violence on the end of the immature fans but it's not like there's a big revolution going on about it.

"You have only encountered racing fans who cannot handle criticism of their sport. I have encountered racing fans who can."

Alright then so relating this back to the anime argument. Are you saying then that the only fans you have encountered can't handle criticism? Because just like racing fans there are anime fans who can handle criticism.

"So, one more time. Ignoring the right or wrong of what was said or the message being sent, who looked better coming out of this incident? The woman who abused someone's trust to send an unsanctioned message (and a somewhat cowardly one, I would have ripped the picture and then started to sing, not ripped it and then taken off), or the intended target who ignored the attack?"

The pope obviously came out better but on the fact that he did ignore her. If he would have spoken up against her then who would be right? Also remember that she did it out of anger, which she seemed to be very sorry for. And which the catholic church or members of the delegation will never let her forget she did that which is probably why she is struggling now. So there is still forced anger there on their side, even if it is no longer on her's. So in the end you can't tell who really did come out better.

Alright then do you believe anime is unhealthy? Since you seemed so quick to bring up evidence I kind of assumed that you agreed with that statement.

I do not believe anime is unhealthy.

You assume a lot of things. I thought you said you read the Otacon exchange, yet you seem completely unfamiliar with the concept of Devil's Advocate.

So you're calling my original statement to be immature when all I asked for is evidence?

Aethos, you asked for proof not evidence. Do I have to explain the difference again?

And yes. Your response was immature. The reason it was immature was that if you were comfortable in your likes and dislikes, you wouldn't not be arguing with that poster. As I said before, this person, like the author of the anime article, deliberately wrote that to provoke a response. You played ball.

If the writer of the anime is unhealthy comment was serious, then he's an idiot, and not worth arguing with. You should have the maturity to recognize that. You should also have the maturity to recognize that I've been stringing you along, just like Otacon.

This from someone who doesn't believe anime is unhealthy yet will supply evidence to support it is.

Devil's Advocate, baby. It forced you to think more throughly about what you were saying, didn't it? And you might recall the original argument was not about the unhealthiness itself, it was about why you could demand proof of something when someone made a statement without supporting facts, but you could do the same thing and only say "I've seen it down at the mall."

"It's immature to post anti-anime comments. It's immature to respond to them. Aethos knows this, but he can't stop writing back."

Well if you're going to go on that logic, then you're calling yourself immature then.

Very good! You're learning!

Although, I do like to see myself is helping anime fans to build self-esteem. Otacon eventually said, "You know what? Screw this." And he didn't come back. Obviously he finally learned when something wasn't worthy of his time. Kudos to him.

Gee I was under the impression that you weren't one of those people who would post anti-anime comments.

Your impression was mostly correct. You did read the Otacon exchange, didn't you? I made a repetitive comment about Akira at the end of every message just to provoke him. I believe it was "I don't like Akira" and "Akira sucks." In fact, I have never seen Akira and I have no idea if it sucks or not.

In my exchange with you, I have not written similar anti-anime comments. I thought you understood this was about anime fans, not anime.

You can persuade others BUT you can't persuade those who are not willing to give your side a chance.

And yet, you hang out on message boards asking them to prove anime is unhealthy.

Thus I'am correct on my examples.

I didn't ask you to explain how it works, though what you said was far from convincing. I am asking you to explain how -you- work. You say you can't persuade people in one breath, and then say you can in another. Is this a little like how the anime community is equal yet can be equal and unequal?

Are you familiar with the Orwellian concept of Doublethink?

So then on that logic, we could look back into history and say that the spanish inquisition, as well as the Salem witch trials were both forms of brainwashing. Especially since the basis of both were torture in order to make somebody agree to what the government wanted them to agree to.

Mmm, close, but not quite. Once the accused had agreed to something, that was it. They were condemned to die, and it didn't really matter if the accused actually believed what they had confessed to. Though it wouldn't suprise me if people snapped under torture and really did believe they'd covorted with Satan.

Brainwashing's purpose is to program someone so that they can be re-integrated into the society of the brainwasher without any ideas that work against that society. In other words, it's not enough to say it. They want to make sure you believe it.

They may not have considered torture, but you have to admit that increase in sales comes from appearances, influences, as well as hidden messages.

Most psychologists actually reject the validity of sublimal messages.

TV, Radio, web, and print ad sales are way down. If advertising so influential, why then are advertising sales way down?

Berkowitz was indeed insane thus the messages his brain would receive would not be the correct ones.

Insanity in our world is a nebulous thing. In the legal world, it has a specific meaning. And that is, at the time of the crime, was this person able to discern right from wrong? David Berkowitz was ruled legally sane, and was sentenced to an actual prison, not a mental instituion.

While there, he was interviewed by an FBI agent, John Douglas, who pioneered the FBI's psychological profiling program. When Berkowitz began talking about the dog, Douglas told him to cut the BS and said the dog had nothing to do with it. Berkowitz smiled, admitted it was true, and said that he'd made the dog story up to assist with a possible insanity plea.

The point is, too often people complain about what poor widdle victims watching TV/anime/talking to the neighbor's German Shepherd made them, and then blaming that for the horrible things they do afterwards.

Who knows, you might. If it goes against your principles.

The point is they keep doing it until it doesn't. And if you somehow have the massive willpower it takes to withstand what they do, they eventually get bored and kill you. When you watch a commerical, you have better options than that.

Well gee with those comments I placed up above, it seems to me that the anti-anime supporters are just as disrespectful of fans and these shows.

Yes, they certainly are. And yet, you try reasoning with them.

Yes by way of revolution, but then again when will you ever see this happening with anime fans?

There should be a revolution. By your own admission there is a significant faction of immature anime fans. Would you agree that these people project a negative image to the world at large? And maybe, because there are enough idiots, it's hard to enjoy being an anime fan for fear of being thought just like them?

You should not tolerate them. It seems to me that the anime community's biggest threat comes from within. Ironically, anti-anime forces are probably the only ones who treat anime and anime fans equally. They hate the whole lot without distinction. Very egaltarian.

Are you saying then that the only fans you have encountered can't handle criticism? Because just like racing fans there are anime fans who can handle criticism.

There is only one that I have encountered, and I had to teach him first. Otacon.

The pope obviously came out better but on the fact that he did ignore her. If he would have spoken up against her then who would be right?

RIGHT! He would have given her complaint a wider forum, and make it appear more valid! Now, connect that argument to anime and this forum. Go on, you can do it.

Also remember that she did it out of anger, which she seemed to be very sorry for. And which the catholic church or members of the delegation will never let her forget she did that which is probably why she is struggling now. So there is still forced anger there on their side, even if it is no longer on her's. So in the end you can't tell who really did come out better.

I'm not talking about the Catholic religion as a whole, I am talking about the Pope. There were plenty of Catholic groups that went bananas over the incident, but not at the direction of the Pope. The ones who went bananas looked like idiots too. Yes, our entire nearly 2000 year old faith can be threatened by one bald woman who got moderately successful singing other people's songs.

Even if you argue conspiracy theory (not that I am), in that the Vatican directed Catholic groups to make noise while the Pope appeared to take the high ground, the reasoning is still valid. The Pope's office knew he would look better by ignoring the comment. So that's what he did.

Oh, and by the way:

1. The pope obviously came out better

2. So in the end you can't tell who really did come out better.

Doublethink.

Wow... Talk about people who just can't let it go on both sides of the issue. o.O

Anime is like any other entertainment medium. Some people like it, others don't. People who like it have reasons for liking it. People who don't have reasons for not liking it.

Like all other mediums, anime falls into different genre for different tastes as well. I think FLCL is the funniest thing since that last Robin Williams stand-up routine I saw. Most people I've met think FLCL makes less sense than thinking that the appeasment of Hitler was a good idea. That's fine. I enjoy it, they don't.

So what?

Do you realize that this comment log has been going for about half a *year*? Is it really worth it?

If you like anime, go watch some Evangelion and forget this thread exists.

If you don't like anime, go watch some Seinfeld reruns and forget this thread exists.

Butter...

Parkay...

Butter...

PARKAY!!

BUTTER!!

ANIME!!

DUBBER!!

ANIME!!

I think this thread has gone on long enough (without ANY point being made, I might add) that you should be able to stop playing devil's advocate now. Try having sincere discussions with these anime fans. Don't allow yourself to feel superior and condescend. It's not all that charming. These people aren't being smarmy in their replies to you. Why don't you extend them the same courtesy? ^_^;;

I dont see why you people choose to fight over such a pointless subject. If you dont like anime, so be it, but dont go enforcing your opinion on others, if you do like is, fine, but dont go defending it like its a religion and get uptight when someone says sumthing bad about it.

I like anime, i also like american cartoons, hell, i like all forms of media, but i dont go bashing the ones i dislike. Anime is abit confusing, and some anime is abit stupid, but hey, look at soap opera's, if you say it takes the brain of a fly to watch anime, what does it take to watch your average american sitcom?

I have watched all sorts of anime, from Neon Genesis Evangelion to Dragonball Z. They are all completely different, its like comparing the matrix to jackass, they have nothing in common apart from the fact that they are movies, its the same with anime. You cant say there isn't one american show or cartoon you despise, so dont be so closed minded about your opinion. As for the people who literally worship anime, well they have problems, but then so do the people who worship movie stars and bands.

How utterly fascinating. Would you like a coke?

Yes, please! Thank you very much!

Gimme, gimme! :)

*glug glug*

Yeah, i wouldn't actually mind a coke to be honest, its like 30 degrees in south africa, its frigging boiling. Jason, i think you spend too much time on this message board, really.

hee hee the coke is mine

"I do not believe anime is unhealthy."

But yes you do, according to Orwell's concept of Doublethink you do think anime is unhealthy based on the proof you posted. So in fact now, you're denying that you ever posted up said proof so you can claim that anime is unhealthy. How is this convincing? Your more or less contradicting the proof you posted when this argument began. In other words if you really didn't believe anime is unhealthy you wouldn't have posted up proof at all.

"You assume a lot of things. I thought you said you read the Otacon exchange, yet you seem completely unfamiliar with the concept of Devil's Advocate."

I am very familiar with Devil's Advocate. In one definition a person won't understand what the other person is asking them or saying.

So in one scenario a person could be insulted if another person replied to their email saying "Could you please you better grammar I can't read what you're saying." To the person who sent the first email, this is a direct insult on them because to that person, the other person blatently ignored the overall argument to question the person's grammar skills. Thus when the person replies this will cause them to lash out at the person instead of fixing their problem like the other person had asked of them.

Are you still with me?

The other definition of Devil's Advocate would be in a business setting. For example if one business man states "This proposal is good because of this, and that!" Another businessman will respond by stating "This proposal is bad because of this and that!" More or less, the argument is being challenged so that all views of the issue can be seen before voting on the proposal itself.

So let's see which definition this argument is based. I would say in my own opinion that the argument fits into definition 2 but what about you? What do you think?

"Aethos, you asked for proof not evidence. Do I have to explain the difference again?"

No but I asked for proof that ALL anime was unhealthy, your supposed proof was only on one anime not all of them. So that would not be proof, it would be evidence.

"And yes. Your response was immature. The reason it was immature was that if you were comfortable in your likes and dislikes, you wouldn't not be arguing with that poster. As I said before, this person, like the author of the anime article, deliberately wrote that to provoke a response. You played ball."

That's because if this person was really serious with that argument. They would have provided an article or a quote not a biased statement.

"If the writer of the anime is unhealthy comment was serious, then he's an idiot, and not worth arguing with. You should have the maturity to recognize that. You should also have the maturity to recognize that I've been stringing you along, just like Otacon."

Well yes, but at the time I thought that the writer was making a serious statement, so I just wanted to see if they could back up their argument. As for you stringing me along, this only shows that I can leave this argument anytime but then again just because you tell me this, how does that change anything? I still have my beliefs you still have yours and we are still arguing over this subject. So if you were really stringing me along you'd have given that up a long time ago claiming that I'am a "lost cause"

"Devil's Advocate, baby. It forced you to think more throughly about what you were saying, didn't it?"

Yes, yes it did

"And you might recall the original argument was not about the unhealthiness itself, it was about why you could demand proof of something when someone made a statement without supporting facts, but you could do the same thing and only say "I've seen it down at the mall.""

That's because I tried to take one approach and use real life examples, even though at the time I should have known that wouldn't prove anything thus I went to written evidence.

"Your impression was mostly correct. You did read the Otacon exchange, didn't you? I made a repetitive comment about Akira at the end of every message just to provoke him. I believe it was "I don't like Akira" and "Akira sucks." In fact, I have never seen Akira and I have no idea if it sucks or not."

Actually, I didn't see that as a threat. I thought of that more as some kind of signature then a provoking comment.

"In my exchange with you, I have not written similar anti-anime comments. I thought you understood this was about anime fans, not anime."

Yes, because when you look at this argument over all it is more about the fans then it is about anime itself. So then the name of this article should be changed from "anime sucks" to "anime purists suck" or "anime fans suck."

"And yet, you hang out on message boards asking them to prove anime is unhealthy."

and yet you hang out on message boards asking us to prove that anime fans are not obsessive monsters.

"I didn't ask you to explain how it works, though what you said was far from convincing. I am asking you to explain how -you- work. You say you can't persuade people in one breath, and then say you can in another."

not quite, how is it that confusing? Let's put it this way, you can't persuade someone by force or mindless arguming and whining. However, you can implant the idea into a person's head that they should like that certain someone. In this way you are manipulating a person not by physical force, but force of will or to put it another way you are mentally forcing someone into liking something.

"Are you familiar with the Orwellian concept of Doublethink?"

Yes I'am Doublethink refers to resolving contradictions which (otherwise) cannot be resolved, by keeping at least two alternate versions of something in mind at once, remembering only the approved one in any circumstance. One does not experience cognitive dissonance unless one fails at proper doublethink, in which case raw discomfort, almost physical pain, may be experienced.

"Mmm, close, but not quite. Once the accused had agreed to something, that was it. They were condemned to die, and it didn't really matter if the accused actually believed what they had confessed to."

mainly because of mass paranoid feeling, but then again even in those situations such as the spanish inquisition you still had a choice.

"If you tell us you go free, if you don't you die"

The basic principle used in those situations. Now even if said person were to tell the government who was and who was not a spy. The government wouldn't set them free, they would be put to death anyway. So in the beginning they had a choice but in the end that choice was taken away. So it's not like they never had the choice to begin with.

"Though it wouldn't suprise me if people snapped under torture and really did believe they'd covorted with Satan.""

Of course! if you were being put under severe torture, you'd tell the regime exactly what they would want to hear just so the torture would stop but then they would either keep torturing you or just put you to death. You contradicted yourself with that statement and proves that brainwashing is in fact there in those situations.

"Brainwashing's purpose is to program someone so that they can be re-integrated into the society of the brainwasher without any ideas that work against that society. In other words, it's not enough to say it. They want to make sure you believe it."

With the Salem witch trials, they would torture the accused in front of the whole town. This was in fact saying. This is what will happen to you if you are ever accused. People became paranoid by this and would accuse anyone of being a witch, even if they weren't one. This was shown in the book "The Crucible." Certainly this shows that people were more likely to believe the regime and less likely to rise against it. Thus the Salem witch trial's were a form of brainwashing

"Most psychologists actually reject the validity of sublimal messages"

Yes but then there are psychologists who do believe the validity of subliminal messages and the ones who don't never seem to stop people from believing that they exist.

"TV, Radio, web, and print ad sales are way down. If advertising so influential, why then are advertising sales way down?"

Because of how bad the economy is right now. The messages are there but people don't have the money to buy the products that is why sales are down and that is also why many companies are going out of business.

"Insanity in our world is a nebulous thing. In the legal world, it has a specific meaning. And that is, at the time of the crime, was this person able to discern right from wrong? David Berkowitz was ruled legally sane, and was sentenced to an actual prison, not a mental instituion."

No he was not able to determine right from wrong this is why he should have been ruled legally insane and put in a mental institution. I mean when a person says this sort of comment.

"I want to make love to the world. I love people. I don't belong on earth. Return me to yahoos."

How is that NOT insanity at it's best. If anything it seems that they never really looked to see if he was sane or insane, he was judged as the murderer he was. Not if he could determine right from wrong and not whether he was sane or insane.

"While there, he was interviewed by an FBI agent, John Douglas, who pioneered the FBI's psychological profiling program. When Berkowitz began talking about the dog, Douglas told him to cut the BS and said the dog had nothing to do with it. Berkowitz smiled, admitted it was true, and said that he'd made the dog story up to assist with a possible insanity plea."

Then on that note we have two possibilities either he had the intelligence of a six year old. Or when he wrote all those letters he was on one heck of a sugar high.

"The point is, too often people complain about what poor widdle victims watching TV/anime/talking to the neighbor's German Shepherd made them, and then blaming that for the horrible things they do afterwards."

Yes but they will claim to be victims under brainwashing. Ceasar Barber claims that he was brainwashed by McDonalds into making him obese.

check out this article for details

http://www.vrijwazig.org/forum/artikelen/view_article.asp?article_id=%2058

He even claims to have never known the nutritional standards but we all know that's a lie. On subway commercials they point out that McDonald's burgers are 52 grams of fat per patty. That should be proof enough that the information is out in the open and it was that information which made me stop eating at everywhere but subway. However how could Barber have been in the dark to not know how bad greasy fast food is then? He couldn't have been since the information is out there and is perfectly accessible.

"The point is they keep doing it until it doesn't. And if you somehow have the massive willpower it takes to withstand what they do, they eventually get bored and kill you. When you watch a commerical, you have better options than that."

Yes but human beings don't have a massive amount of willpower to overcome torture which is why they will succumb more than resist. Those that can resist are specially trained and most of these people are in the armed services. Though if you respect your principles you probably will last longer then someone who doesn't.

"There should be a revolution. By your own admission there is a significant faction of immature anime fans. Would you agree that these people project a negative image to the world at large? And maybe, because there are enough idiots, it's hard to enjoy being an anime fan for fear of being thought just like them?

"You should not tolerate them. It seems to me that the anime community's biggest threat comes from within. Ironically, anti-anime forces are probably the only ones who treat anime and anime fans equally. They hate the whole lot without distinction. Very egaltarian."

Ah you bring up a good point. They are a negative image to the world but even though we try and help them to not be such a negative image this won't help them because they will continue to be negative. Subject to change is non existant. In fact you could relate that statement with the start of the Bolshevik revolution during the end of WW1. The working class thought the government was full of idiots because they would not pull out of the war. Thus they rose and took the government over but then Lenin who was known for the statement "Peace, land, and bread" still wouldn't pull the troops out and another revolution arose and overthrew Lenin. So in fact who would bring change in anime fandom would it be the ones producing the positive or negative image?

I would say the more positive images would bring forth change because they strive for change while the negative side loves things the way they are. So maybe the positive side of anime fans wish to end feudal society while the negative side wishes to keep feudal society intact because of their social interests.

In all of this where do the anti-anime supprters fit into this? Well they'd rather separate anime fans from the rest of society so that way neither side grows larger but then even they will attack us. So are they peacemakers or are they more like warmongers taking on the guise of peacemakers to make themselves look good.

Gently I nuzzled her neck as my hands roamed up her firm stomach. I could feel her heart madly beating with passion as my sweating palms crossed her ribcage, where her bosom rose and fell with her heavy breaths. Finally, I could stand it no longer, and tore open her blouse to reveal the mounds of her womanhood...

Aethos, first let me apologize for that opening paragraph, which has nothing whatsoever to do with our discussion. But as you may have noticed, some people have complained we're getting repetitive, which means they are growing bored, so I threw in some cheap titillation (pun semi-intended) to keep them interested. I was inspired in part by the subject you chose, "Jason, a man of many positions," which reminded me of the Kama Sutra.

I digress. Onward:

But yes you do, according to Orwell's concept of Doublethink you do think anime is unhealthy based on the proof you posted.

Ok, so I do have to explain the difference between proof and evidence to you again. At least you understand what Doublethink is though.

Proof confirms a thesis. Evidence supports one. Some guy claiming to have been kidnapped by three-breasted women on a flying saucer is evidence of life on other planets. Slim evidence, unreliable evidence, too little evidence to reach a conclusion, but still evidence.

Proof of life on other planets is when the Triple Breasted Women land on the White House lawn while CNN has the cameras rolling, and then stay for a week at Disney land, pausing only to slaughter all real estate agents with their death ray eyes.

Now here's the really fun part. Aside from playing Devil's Advocate (being "One who argues against a cause or position, not as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position" -Dictionary.com) evidence can be thrown about by one such as myself without stating an actual position or opinion. That's what I did. Advoctus Diabol, baby.

When you asked for proof that anime was unhealthy, I specifically said we did not have proof, we have evidence. Which we do. Thin evidence, but still evidence. It's hardly overwhelming evidence, and you certainly could not reach any kind of untouchable conclusion from it. It is not inconsistent to say "There is evidence to support a theory" and actually not believe the theory. You would often say that when you feel there is evidence, but not enough evidence, or equal or greater evidence for a contrary theory. Theologians often claim there is evidence God exists. I could quote you such proof, never once telling you if I actually believed God existed. And even more amusing, evidence can exist for something that actually isn't true. Just ask David Milgard.

So then the name of this article should be changed from "anime sucks" to "anime purists suck" or "anime fans suck."

That is an issue you will have to take up with the author of the article.

yet you hang out on message boards asking us to prove that anime fans are not obsessive monsters.

I'd be content if you were able to prove you weren't obsessive. Do you know how you do that?

not quite, how is it that confusing? Let's put it this way, you can't persuade someone by force or mindless arguming and whining.

That's not what you said. You said "Well you can't persuade others that much is true." You didn't specify force or no force, logic, or illogic. You stated "Well you can't persuade others that much is true."

Yes I'am Doublethink refers to resolving contradictions which (otherwise) cannot be resolved, by keeping at least two alternate versions of something in mind at once, remembering only the approved one in any circumstance. One does not experience cognitive dissonance unless one fails at proper doublethink, in which case raw discomfort, almost physical pain, may be experienced.
Yes indeed. I see you had to look it up though:

http://www.promethea.org/Misc_Compositions/Doublethink.html

Third paragraph after the block quote. Now I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you merely forgot to credit your source, and weren't trying to make me think you wrote that by yourself.

"Though it wouldn't suprise me if people snapped under torture and really did believe they'd covorted with Satan.""

Of course! if you were being put under severe torture, you'd tell the regime exactly what they would want to hear just so the torture would stop but then they would either keep torturing you or just put you to death. You contradicted yourself with that statement and proves that brainwashing is in fact there in those situations.

You're so desperate to catch me in a contradiction it's almost endearing. Telling a person exactly what they want to hear is a far cry from believing it. At this late date there is no way to determine who was tortured just enough to give them what they wanted, and who was tortured so much that their brains actually snapped. In any case, brainwashing was not the intention. The Inquisitors' main goal was to elicit a confession and find co-conspirators. A brainwasher's purpose is to "re-educate" a person so they can be released back into society.

Certainly this shows that people were more likely to believe the regime and less likely to rise against it. Thus the Salem witch trial's were a form of brainwashing

Not more likely to believe the regime, less likely to question regime. This is oppression and fear, effective for its time, but not brainwashing. What you describe is just as likely to get someone plotting to overthrow the regime. In successful brainwashing, overthrowing the regime would never occur. There's a saying "It's a sin to do it, it's not a sin to think about it." In brainwashing, you wouldn't be capable of thinking or doing it.

Because of how bad the economy is right now. The messages are there but people don't have the money to buy the products that is why sales are down and that is also why many companies are going out of business.
Then why isn't crime going up? If the message "YOU MUST HAVE THESE PRODUCTS" is still out there, and they are so influential, why aren't more people stealing the goods, or the money to get them.

And before you ask, I do have evidence to support the above paragraph.

Or am I bluffing?

How is that NOT insanity at it's best.

Oh, trust me, plenty of psychologists looked over Berkowitz and plenty of lawyers argued about it. Berkowitz was sane under the legal definition. If you kill because it makes you feel good about yourself and in control, even though you know it's illegal, you're not insane. Sick, yes. If you kill because you genuinely think it prevents you from turning into a lobster, then you're nuts.

Then on that note we have two possibilities either he had the intelligence of a six year old. Or when he wrote all those letters he was on one heck of a sugar high.

Or he enjoyed manipulating the press with these notes. People write all sorts of things to manipulate others. Like bait them on a message board, for example.

TV/anime/talking to the neighbor's German Shepherd made them, and then blaming that for the horrible things they do afterwards." Yes but they will claim to be victims under brainwashing. Ceasar Barber claims that he was brainwashed by McDonalds into making him obese.

Uhm, why are you providing an example that supports my argument? Do you agree with me and just wanted to underscore the point?

Yes but human beings don't have a massive amount of willpower to overcome torture which is why they will succumb more than resist.

True. So you're agreeing with me again?

So in fact who would bring change in anime fandom would it be the ones producing the positive or negative image?

Positive. I would agree with you there.

So are they peacemakers or are they more like warmongers taking on the guise of peacemakers to make themselves look good.

Oh, warmongers, certainly. They want to stir up noise. And they do. Look at this thread. It is the most active thread on this board, just ahead of the Arranged Marriages one. And there are people who find it by seeking it out on search engines, according to the administrator of this webpage (one search criteria was apparently "anime+sucks+jason").

And they can stir it up because the lack of unity and confidence exists. If there were no insecurity in the anime community, this discussion would not be taking place. Going to this message board and flaming the troglodyte who writes "anime is gay" is like living in Country A an knowing that there are real problems there and shipping aid to Country B, who has noticed problems Country A.

With Valentine's Day being tomorrow and all. I just feel the love, and think that you guys should act on it. Sexually frustrated anime fans turn into Hentai watching rapists, and sexually frustrated Oz fans turn into Sopranos watching sodomists. I don't want to see you two go down those roads. Kiss to start. Fuck to finish. ^_^;;;;;

Well I have not taken such a fancy to Dodo that I shall be jealous. I have climbed the walls of my room and have seen that the floor of Heaven is blue. You can't tell if you're stepping in the ocean or not. There are as many channels as there are Hindu gods, and nothin' on. When driving around Heaven you should avoid collisions with other vehicles and objects. Angels in the mirror may appear closer than they are. And I think the tiger was behind the door.

"Gently I nuzzled her neck as my hands roamed up her firm stomach. I could feel her heart madly beating with passion as my sweating palms crossed her ribcage, where her bosom rose and fell with her heavy breaths. Finally, I could stand it no longer, and tore open her blouse to reveal the mounds of her womanhood...

Aethos, first let me apologize for that opening paragraph, which has nothing whatsoever to do with our discussion. But as you may have noticed, some people have complained we're getting repetitive, which means they are growing bored, so I threw in some cheap titillation (pun semi-intended) to keep them interested. I was inspired in part by the subject you chose, "Jason, a man of many positions," which reminded me of the Kama Sutra."

O_O eh heh, well I guess that would give the fans what they want.......apology accepted though, but how did I know you would bring up something like that when I wrote my response that I'll never know.

"Proof confirms a thesis. Evidence supports one. Some guy claiming to have been kidnapped by three-breasted women on a flying saucer is evidence of life on other planets. Slim evidence, unreliable evidence, too little evidence to reach a conclusion, but still evidence."

I understand that which is why I considered your article only evidence and not proof. That article alone will not prove that thesis. It would take more then that one incident and a whole lot of scientific research before a true result would come to light.

you know the saying "seeing is believing" right? Well I believe that the same can be said for proof and evidence.

evidence would be when I said during that pop culture debate that I saw people like that at the mall. It supported my thesis yet it wasn't credible proof because I couldn't back it up but it was still evidence.

Proof is that article I posted because seeing an article or a statement is proof of a thesis. Which that pop culture article I posted on here exactly did.

"Now here's the really fun part. Aside from playing Devil's Advocate (being "One who argues against a cause or position, not as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position" -Dictionary.com) evidence can be thrown about by one such as myself without stating an actual position or opinion. That's what I did. Advoctus Diabol, baby."

Well played Jason, well played

"When you asked for proof that anime was unhealthy, I specifically said we did not have proof, we have evidence. Which we do. Thin evidence, but still evidence."

Which I understand, so when I said proof I was mistaken. However that person had made that statement sound like that anime was actually unhealthy. So I asked for proof, if that person actually believed how anime is unhealthy then I want to see the actual proof. It's not like I'm trying to say that evidence doesn't count as anything, a little evidence might not count but a lot of evidence goes a long way.

"It's hardly overwhelming evidence, and you certainly could not reach any kind of untouchable conclusion from it. It is not inconsistent to say "There is evidence to support a theory""

but if there's one shred of evidence to support it, then the theory does exist.

for example let's turn to this supposed moon conspiracy. We believed that Neil Armstrong landed on the moon right? Well now it is beginning to come to light that maybe it was all a hoax and a quote from here

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=124&contentid=576

supports my statement.

"Sibril, 37, - who believes the moon landings were faked to fool the Soviets into believing the United States had achieved the ultimate space goal - was used by a Japanese television team to surprise Aldrin with an "ambush", following an interview in the hotel.

"I walked up to him on the sidewalk and put a bible up to him and asked him to swear on the bible that he actually walked on the moon," Sibril, who has confronted Aldrin on two other occasions, told AFP.

"He refused to do it so I told him he was a thief to take money for giving and interview on something he didn't do."

so does that mean we never landed on the moon? Surely that's a piece of evidence but it doesn't prove anything for all we know maybe he just wanted to get a nice refresing coke and that's why he hit that person to run across the street. or perhaps the moon landing never happened. Nobody really knows because there is still no consequential proof that either side is right.

You would often say that when you feel there is evidence, but not enough evidence, or equal or greater evidence for a contrary theory. Theologians often claim there is evidence God exists.

And then you have people like the jews the "chosen" people of god who think that Jesus wasn't the son of god. but we christians know he was the son of god because of evidence in the new testament. However, the Jews only follow the Torah (the first five books of the old testament) and even though back in Jesus's time there were miracles that proved Jesus was the son of god, people still didn't believe him because of people like Elisha and Elijah who worked miracles as well.

"I could quote you such proof, never once telling you if I actually believed God existed. And even more amusing, evidence can exist for something that actually isn't true. Just ask David Milgard."

I can agree to that

"That is an issue you will have to take up with the author of the article"

Yes but it's only because people on here argue about the fans more than anime itself which the author clearly did. So isn't that the true reason anime sucks in anti anime supporters views? Because of us, because of the fans themselves? We are the bad guys aren't we, that's how we are seemed to be portrayed.

"I'd be content if you were able to prove you weren't obsessive. Do you know how you do that?"

Who said this is even what the argument is based on anymore. It looks more like we're trying to outwit the other rather then duscuss the evils of obsession.

"That's not what you said. You said "Well you can't persuade others that much is true." You didn't specify force or no force, logic, or illogic. You stated "Well you can't persuade others that much is true.""

I'm saying that by force you can't persuade anyone to do anything because force will cause them to tread farther from the desired result and just arguing won't change views either because it's mindless bickering. The fact that I was trying to prove is that media can implant a thought into a person's mind to like a certain product and this is how a person is persuaded.

"Third paragraph after the block quote. Now I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that you merely forgot to credit your source, and weren't trying to make me think you wrote that by yourself."

You got me there, I was working through my rebuttal fast and forgot to cite my mistake.

"You're so desperate to catch me in a contradiction it's almost endearing."

Actually I'm just trying to catch you off guard

"Telling a person exactly what they want to hear is a far cry from believing it. At this late date there is no way to determine who was tortured just enough to give them what they wanted, and who was tortured so much that their brains actually snapped."

Yes, but it has happened under torture but I wasn't expressing that. I was more or less expressing that brainwashing has nothing to do with forceful torture.

"In any case, brainwashing was not the intention. The Inquisitors' main goal was to elicit a confession and find co-conspirators."

Yes, thus they would mentally torture the person into confessing. forcing that thought into a person's mind by manipulation would be considered brainwashing.

"A brainwasher's purpose is to "re-educate" a person so they can be released back into society."

http://dieoff.org/page24.htm

check out that article, brainwashing isn't only re educating someone or converting someone.

"Then why isn't crime going up? If the message "YOU MUST HAVE THESE PRODUCTS" is still out there, and they are so influential, why aren't more people stealing the goods, or the money to get them.

And before you ask, I do have evidence to support the above paragraph.

Or am I bluffing?"

Well people still have the ability to buy food and clothing but not a new car or house. and you want to say that there's no crime? What about shootings and muggings in broad day light? Are you saying those don't count?

and before you ask yes I have proof of these instances as well but then again I could be lying.

"Uhm, why are you providing an example that supports my argument? Do you agree with me and just wanted to underscore the point?"

I'm underscoring, mainly because people blindly get brainwashed and go back to accuse the person or company later when it was their fault for being coerced into their position in the first place. Ceasar Barber could have quit eating McDonald's anytime and yet he didn't. Then he went back and sued McDonalds for brainwashing him into eating their food thus making him obese. This was his doing not theirs thus he was not under brainwashing and there fore not a victim.

"And they can stir it up because the lack of unity and confidence exists."

Yet there is unity in the cause and that cause is to defend our interests.

"If there were no insecurity in the anime community, this discussion would not be taking place."

Oh please if there was no insecurity at all then everyone would love the same thing. Then how boring would that be

Mott the Hoople and the game of LIFE
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Proof is that article I posted because seeing an article or a statement is proof of a thesis. Which that pop culture article I posted on here exactly did.

One article alone is not enough to prove a thesis. In order for a theory to achieve general acceptance, there must be several different studies from independent researchers. Finally, you need to construct a series of experiments in which a result is predicted based on the theory. If you correctly predict the result 99 times out of 100 with the aid of your theory, that's pretty good proof.

I told you about the trickiness of evidence. Proof has its own pitfalls too.

However that person had made that statement sound like that anime was actually unhealthy.

Sound? He clearly said anime was unhealthy. Very little room for interpretation on that one.

but if there's one shred of evidence to support it, then the theory does exist.

A theory can exist without any evidence whatsoever. That's the beauty of theories. I have a theory you're purple. Proof? None. Evidence? None. I suppose I could make some up if I looked hard enough though. Oh yeah, you mentioned Barney at some point or other. Barney is purple. I might infer from that you identify with Barney in some fashion, perhaps because you're purple too. There we go.

Nobody really knows because there is still no consequential proof that either side is right.

And now the previously mentioned pitfalls of proof. First, it is impossible to prove a negative. Second, no proof is absolute. By way of example, my theory that you're purple. You can't prove that you aren't. Even if you knocked on my door tomorrow, I could always find a reason not to believe it. How do I know it's really Aethos, and not some guy he paid to show up? How do I know I'm not drugged? How do I know I even exist? On and on.

Most people find certain proofs convincing enough to at least operate in the world. Others go insane watching X-Files.

we christians know he was the son of god because of evidence in the new testament.

And then we get into the issue of bias and agenda when citing proof. For example, it's in the Christian world's interest for you to believe in their God. Therefore I would question their evidence harder than I would most. My evidence of God's existence is better because it requires no religious texts whatsoever.

And I still don't have to say whether or not I believe in God.

So isn't that the true reason anime sucks in anti anime supporters views? Because of us, because of the fans themselves? We are the bad guys aren't we, that's how we are seemed to be portrayed.

You are the bad guys. There are posts on this board from anime fans who are disenchanted with anime because of other fans. You yourself admitted to the presence of immaturity and insecurity.

Anime haters have no power to hinder your access to, and enjoyment of anime whatsoever...if you don't let them. Your real threat comes from within. That's why your efforts are better spent elsewhere. Arguing with me is pointless. Arguing with someone who writes "Every single last piece of anime is identical to Sailor Moon without exception and I hate it all" is also pointless. But you just might get somewhere policing your own community.

"I'd be content if you were able to prove you weren't obsessive. Do you know how you do that?"

Who said this is even what the argument is based on anymore.

I am. This stuff about proof/evidence, about brainwashing, that's the side dish. This is the main course.

check out that article, brainwashing isn't only re educating someone or converting someone.

Impressive. Someone attached the words "Brainwashing" to the top of the article. The word "brainwashing" fails to appear anywhere else in the text that follows. I can write the words "Turkey Sandwich" to the top of this page. What would that prove?

The article says that people watching TV enter a passive state, and do not immediately analyze the information they receive. It says nothing about the purpose or methods of brainwashing. It does however make an interesting comparison to a divine decree from a god.

The human brain is constantly receiving message from all five senses. Very few of them are actually the focus of the brain's current activity, or that the stimulus is necessarily altering behavior. Right now I am concentrating on writing this. My fingers are picking up sensation as they hit the keys. I am barely aware of this, because it is not the primary focus of my brain.

I am willing to bet that had the person been told to focus continually on the program, and to really think about what was going on, the right hemisphere would have kicked in.

But one more thing: General Electric has a history of being creative with scientific data for the own ends. Look up the phrase "Let's Westinghouse him."

and you want to say that there's no crime? What about shootings and muggings in broad day light? Are you saying those don't count?

Another tip about arguing: argue points that were actually said. I asked why crime wasn't skyrocketing, not that it didn't exist. And generally, crime in the US is not rising. It's dropping. I wasn't bluffing.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-09-09-crime_x.htm

So there's my evidence. Where's yours?

Yet there is unity in the cause and that cause is to defend our interests.

So, the anti-anime article killed several anime supporters? Burned the entire library of Robotech episodes and are now forever lost? Lead to the passing of a law which meant anyone carrying a Sailor Moon backpack was to serve five years without possibility of parole?

if there was no insecurity at all then everyone would love the same thing. Then how boring would that be

Well, that's an interesting leap in logic. The lack of insecurity would only mean that everyone would be comfortable with everyone else's choices. People would still like a variety of different things, and dislike others. Nobody would feel threatened by this, but there would still be diversity.

So then the name of this article should be changed from "anime sucks" to "anime purists suck" or "anime fans suck."

Not really.

The article was a rant about the flaws of the animation itself. I've seen a variety of shows, some which have been defined good and some bad by anime` fans on this very page.

To me it looks all the same.

There wasn't a need to write much about the fans themselves, other than the bit I put near the end of the article. Experience has taught me that anime` fans will react with violent zealotry to anything that may even remotely disagree with their obsession.

There are over one-hundred comments posted for this article alone. More than half proved my point.

Well I like anime but I'm not a freak about it and I like some of their stuff like *the good ones* and hate all the rest. But personally I'd like to say that I hate it but then it wouldn't be fully true. But this would: I HATE ANIME FREAKS!! They are the worst sort of people!!! They get in their little cult and talk about it, and get music from the show, and then draw the show themselves, and thats the worst part of it all! When they start drawing it! It would be okay if they didn't draw it! The problem with that it people who aren't good at art get credit for drawing pictures of anime! Being an accomplished srtist I think its cheesy, anime is about the easiest thing to draw and can be practically drawn by anyone at any age and look good, so it just craps all the people with real talent out. MAN I HATE THAT GIRL CALLED CATHY WHO DRAWS IT AT MY SCHOOL!

I guess anime is very overrated. It's a crying shame that Anime art is given a pass even if the Person who drew it isn't very talented to begin with. I'm not all into Sailor Moon. I'm not a very good artist. I'm very considerate of people who don't draw Fanart. I hate it too. Particularly those kids who draw DBZ characters. I think the Art for DBZ is pretty ugly. That's why I think American Artists are better in the art department. They aren't restricted to a particular style. American Animation is more liberated and you can experiment with various styles. Art in general however demands form and style. I guess Artists should strive for originality. I have no qualms against Anime influence work provided it's not the only thing you can draw.

Wow, this has been going on longer then I thought 0_o but its fun.

To Aethos and your post to White Witch.
Is that so hmmm japanese animation not as good as american hmmm? Well check out these sites.http://www.jeddy.org/moi/anime/why.html http://www.jessdoor.com/anime/why.html

In my opinion, that site proves NOTHING, the person who made this is an anime fan and will naturally favor japanimation over americanimation (or any animation for that matter, thats what it seems like), this site is telling you what you already think and want to hear/see.

To take a quotes from it.
Well, I hope I've convinced you to give anime a try. Or I've confirmed some of your own suspicions of what makes anime so much better than western cartoons. If you have never watched anime, give it a try. I have yet to watch a series that I didn't enjoy!

This is a total turn off and just goes on about some imaginary thought on "Japanese superiourity in the animation department."

even American/Western professionals don't measure up well against most Japanese voice actors

This is from a stand point of fan who speaks English and is NOT Japanese, I talked to some Japanese fans (chatrooms) about anime voice actors and they proclaim a dislike to some Japanese VA's! On a forum a girl wanted to know what Japanese fans who liked American cartoons thought of a Japanese dub over, most responded they like it original (English) cause they didn't like the voices dubbed. They pretty much said the same thing many fans say "it takes away the quality of the character"

I don't care how popular the person who voices -to toss a random name- Seki Toshihko is, if I like the English dub over impression of the character he played then I am going to like it. What does a VA's status have to do with me liking them? I have ran into this a lot at boards "well so and so is an idol in Japan, so his/her voice fits not matter what etc etc"

I have heard the voice of Gohan Son in Japanese -_- :pokes out her eardrum.

And I highly dislike that comment on professional American voice actors. Coming from a woman who is not in voice acting its very rude.

emotions, and their ability to convey different emotions and jump from drama to slapstick comedy in a matter of seconds never ceases to amaze me.

Only reason it amazes cause you can't understand a word they say! Over the years I kind of figured when anime fans say "oooo the Japanese version has soooo much emotion" what they are really hearing is the tone of voice NOT acting. Only way you would be able to tell is 1)you speak Japanese 2)you watched a lot of Japanese plays to pick up on whats what 3)ARE actually Japanese in the first place.

I did a voice for a radio play/online comic 'Tsunami Channel' the person who makes the comic is pretty much bilingual (Japanese) and when he posted his thoughts on the many submitted clips by people, he said "I like how everyone sounds but since I am still studying English I can't really tell the emotion"

I have been harping on plot and format, but another reason I love Japanese anime is because the quality of animation is usually very high

I highly disagree lol

American cartoons also have very little plot. All American cartoons are episodic, with either very little plot, or no plot, carrying through the entire series. Even the adult cartoons follow this American rule. Many Japanese cartoons are also episodic, but even those have a continuing plot, and missing one crucial episode can leave you confused the next time you turn on the show

There are MANY American cartoons that carry on a flow of episodes...top one of all time "Disney's Gargoyles"
Half the anime now adays are "fillers" so in terms you are not really missing anything. Even Gargoyles had its share, so do manga, comicbooks, and sitcoms yada yada.

First off, anime is better for older audiences. Americans have some wierd mental block where cartoons are only for children.

This contradicts the statement that anime is made for everyone in any age group huh? And once again believe or not -i like that show lol-- there are some Japanese that find anime is made for children and don't watch it! WOW so its not just an American thing.

To: Like Minded Diva
It's a crying shame that Anime art is given a pass even if the Person who drew it isn't very talented to begin with

Quite true, show an (example) French artist who has a style for realism a Shoujo drawing (ya know, wispy, spindle, ghost like characters with the bug eyes) and I bet he/she will be in complete disgust of it, but will still have a respect for that artist style...IMO thats what makes an artist, having some form of appreciation for some ones art wether you like it or not; once again this an 'opinion' not a fact.

People...(okay say Some) should realize East and West art will never out top each other cause its even! ITS ART, the whole point of it is to express yourself. Anime (to me) is not an ART FORM...I don't know why people say that...

To: White Witch
American Animation is better than Anime sometimes.

Aethos failed to read that last part right, taking in defense that you meant "American animation is better etc" when you didn't. Personally I will never tire of Tom&Jerry...I will most likely get bored of Inu Yasha before I give that up. Nice series to watch, but I have no motivation to buy it.

Which brings me to this word "bored". Talk to some anime fans that has seen Chobits 2 years ago by bootleg or digisub and the most likely answer will be "I have lost interest in it"
Why do people lose interest in anime so quickly? Yeah I know people are sick of it but I am going to use it anyway "Sailor Moon". I find a fan a person who can stick to a series even after its gone, they will still show a feeling for it even if they have moved on to another series, but I've seen more of "I have grown out of Sailor Moon and realized its a kiddy show, I'm into -insert some new so called mature anime title' now"

I can watch SpongeBob, and PPG for hours and still tune into catch Bugs Bunny! I don't know why I guess I still got an attachment.

To: Jason
^_^ lol you rock dude

It takes an open-minded person to admit they are close-minded...isn't that funny!! XD

To: Jason
^_^ lol you rock dude

Thank you. It is my gift. It is also my curse.

Still out there Aethos? Or have you heeded your own advice?

Now if you were to tell me that "Ranma sucks" or "Inu Yasha sucks" or even if you told me that "Excel saga sucks" I wouldn't hold it against you. Mainly I'd just shrug off that comment.

***DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO PROVOKE FOLLOWS***

This forum contains post after post of you demonstrating your ability to "just shrug off" such comments.

***THIS CONCLUDES THE DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO PROVOKE.***

A tip: Smart people take the high ground and learn it's difficult to put out a fire by throwing logs treated with gasoline on it.

Talk about getting serious... Anyway, this is quite entertaining. Please keep it up.

I think that anime is the greatest thing in the world if you look into it. You have to dig deeoer if you really want to get the feel of anime. E-mail me to find out how

think that anime is the greatest thing in the world if you look into it. You have to dig deeoer if you really want to get the feel of anime. E-mail me to find out how

Does it involve sucking a dick, as the subject of your message suggests? If so, no thanks.

It has been 10 days since Aethos has replied to one of my posts, even after I wrote one specifically to provoke him.

It would appear that like Otacon, Aethos has evolved and learned not to be so easily baited. He has proven he is not obsessed, and that he can just let it go. Congratulations are in order, I have been defeated.

I mean this in the most sincere way, without facetiousness. I do not consider getting the so-called "last word" to be a victory. This argument, though it bent and twisted into subjects like brainwashing, what constitutes proof, NASCAR, and some unidentified person's "mounds of her womanhood," was really always about being confident enough in yourself to just say "screw it, screw him, and screw what he thinks."

I'd like to think Aethos is now hanging out on anime boards and chastizing anime fans for arguing with other anime fans, promoting cooperation and tolerance. And telling them not to waste time arguing with anime haters, but to just ignore them. And I'd like to think I had some part in that.

Congratulations again, Aethos. I bow in defeat. Enjoy your victory.

Jason

Yay for Jason. *claps* And yay for Aethos. And you, oovegetaoo2003@yahoo.com: *shakes head* You're giving us anime fans a bad name. Shhhh.

Otakus and diehard Fanfools make me ashamed of being an anime fan. So much so I starting to hate anime I once loved. They are dangerously out of touch with reality.

“Wow, this has been going on longer then I thought 0_o but its fun.”

Yeah too bad it ended, and the argument between those two was really heating up!

To Aethos and your post to White Witch.

““Is that so hmmm japanese animation not as good as american hmmm? Well check out these sites.http://www.jeddy.org/moi/anime/why.html http://www.jessdoor.com/anime/why.html”

In my opinion, that site proves NOTHING, the person who made this is an anime fan and will naturally favor japanimation over americanimation (or any animation for that matter, thats what it seems like), this site is telling you what you already think and want to hear/see.”

Not at all from what I read, the site gave both fact and opinion. Isn’t it ironic that anyone against a certain position will say that an article or a web site that doesn’t support their side say it means nothing while they’ll support anything that supports their own side no matter how biased it is?

To take a quotes from it.

““Well, I hope I've convinced you to give anime a try. Or I've confirmed some of your own suspicions of what makes anime so much better than western cartoons. If you have never watched anime, give it a try. I have yet to watch a series that I didn't enjoy!”

This is a total turn off and just goes on about some imaginary thought on "Japanese superiourity in the animation department."”

Where does it say that? From the quote it seems like the writer of the article is being persuasive and is pushing for people to give anime a chance. Also the statement about conforming suspicions is only an opinion, not every anime fan thinks western cartoons are bad you know.

“Even American/Western professionals don't measure up well against most Japanese voice actors”

Well that depends, some anime fans just feel that the Japanese version is a lot better because it conveys more emotion than the dubbed version. However, I’ve always enjoyed the dub more lol.

“This is from a stand point of fan that speaks English and is NOT Japanese, I talked to some Japanese fans (chatrooms) about anime voice actors and they proclaim a dislike to some Japanese VA's! On a forum a girl wanted to know what Japanese fans who liked American cartoons thought of a Japanese dub over, most responded they like it original

(English) cause they didn't like the voices dubbed. They pretty much said the same thing many fans say "it takes away the quality of the character"”

Exactly in DBZ for example FUNimation put in music where it shouldn’t have been, made the characters say stuff like

Gohan: Golly gee gosh Krillan that Frieza guy sure is scary looking

Or the more infamous thing done by Krillan when he started praying the Lord’s prayer during the battle with Frieza when it was pointed out numerous times that he was Buddhist. Check out this site for more examples

http://dbzuncensored.dbzoa.net/

When you just look at what FUNi did to DBZ you’ll figure out the reason why anime fans hate the dub version so much

Another example is sailor moon, even though I can understand where they needed to censor out a lot of things especially the relationship between senshi Uranus and Neptune. It seems that dubbers will go far to make sure that something considered bad will be non existent Every sailor moon fan knew that Uranus and Neptune were lovers and yet DIC turned them into cousins so that way the impression that there is such a thing as same sex relationships is non existent to young children. But the fact that fans already knew the truth of what happened in the Japanese version that is what made them furious other wise they probably wouldn’t have cared.

“I don't care how popular the person who voices -to toss a random name- Seki Toshihko is, if I like the English dub over impression of the character he played then I am going to like it. What does a VA's status have to do with me liking them? I have ran into this a lot at boards "well so and so is an idol in Japan, so his/her voice fits not matter what etc etc"”

Absolutely nothing but my personal favorite American VA is Richard Ian Cox the voice of Inu Yasha from (Inu-Yasha), Bit Cloud from (Zoids the Blitz team saga), and male Ranma from the fourth to seventh season of Ranma 1/2. The main reason he is possibly my favorite over all is because I feel that when he voices a character, his voice just fits the character. But that’s just my opinion.

“I have heard the voice of Gohan Son in Japanese -_- :pokes out her eardrum.”

Oy I can attest to that.

“And I highly dislike that comment on professional American voice actors. Coming from a woman who is not in voice acting it’s very rude.”

Yes, yes it is.

““The depth of emotions and their ability to convey different emotions and jump from drama to slapstick comedy in a matter of seconds never ceases to amaze me.”

Only reason it amazes cause you can't understand a word they say! Over the years I kind of figured when anime fans say "oooo the Japanese version has soooo much emotion" what they are really hearing is the tone of voice NOT acting. Only way you would be able to tell is 1)you speak Japanese 2)you watched a lot of Japanese plays to pick up on whats what 3)ARE actually Japanese in the first place.”

Well actually it’s more than that, As stated before in DBZ they added music or lines that would ruin a somewhat dramatic moment such as when Goku told everyone that Vegeta and Gohan were dead and Videl stated that she loved Gohan WHEN in the Japanese version you just saw her tears hit the ground so you knew she loved him she didn’t have to say it.

And FUNi would also add in music to scenes which were full of drama such as when Goku sacrificed himself in the cell games or when Vegeta gave his life against Majin Buu. The music in the dubbed version just ruins the emotion that the anime was originally trying to convey.

“I did a voice for a radio play/online comic 'Tsunami Channel' the person who makes the comic is pretty much bilingual (Japanese) and when he posted his thoughts on the many submitted clips by people, he said "I like how everyone sounds but since I am still studying English I can't really tell the emotion"”

I believe that there are anime fans out there who do respect English VA’s as well as Japanese ones. I would guess and this is my own opinion that it depends on which anime you watch because you just might not like a VA because their voice is too whiny or too girlish for what that character is supposed to represent. After all if the character is supposed to be tough you wouldn’t want them to sound like a total wimp would you?

““I have been harping on plot and format, but another reason I love Japanese anime is because the quality of animation is usually very high”

I highly disagree lol”

I think animation in anime excels in some anime where it doesn’t show a lot in others. Though I disagree that American/Western animation is any better.

““American cartoons also have very little plot. All American cartoons are episodic, with either very little plot, or no plot, carrying through the entire series. Even the adult cartoons follow this American rule. Many Japanese cartoons are also episodic, but even those have a continuing plot, and missing one crucial episode can leave you confused the next time you turn on the show”

There are MANY American cartoons that carry on a flow of episodes...top one of all time "Disney's Gargoyles" Half the anime now adays are "fillers" so in terms you are not really missing anything. Even Gargoyles had its share, so do manga, comicbooks, and sitcoms yada yada.”

Yes but you have to remember with Gargoyles was that they went in many different directions a lot of the time. Even I found myself asking “what the friggin heck is going on?” and I had already seen every episode and basically knew the plot. However, Gargoyles was split into so many sub plots that it became confusing and uninteresting.

““First off, anime is better for older audiences. Americans have some wierd mental block where cartoons are only for children.”

This contradicts the statement that anime is made for everyone in any age group huh? And once again believe or not -i like that show lol-- there are some Japanese that find anime is made for children and don't watch it! WOW so its not just an American thing.”

Yes but you don’t see the Japanese censor as much do you?

To: Like Minded Diva

““It's a crying shame that Anime art is given a pass even if the Person who drew it isn't very talented to begin with”

Quite true, show an (example) French artist who has a style for realism a Shoujo drawing (ya know, wispy, spindle, ghost like characters with the bug eyes) and I bet he/she will be in complete disgust of it, but will still have a respect for that artist style...IMO that’s what makes an artist, having some form of appreciation for some ones art whether you like it or not; once again this an 'opinion' not a fact.”

First off I found that statement rather rude, sure people just starting out aren’t going to be able to do first class professional work but you shouldn’t put them down Like Minded Diva.

Back to the topic at hand though I agree with you KittD, having an appreciation for someone’s art is a very important part of being an artist.

“People...(okay say Some) should realize East and West art will never out top each other cause its even! ITS ART, the whole point of it is to express yourself. Anime (to me) is not an ART FORM...I don't know why people say that...”

I agree that art is to express yourself, but you’re contradicting yourself in that sentence. Anime just like American cartoons is art and should be respected as such. The reason people think so highly of Eastern animation is because it gives off a little more realism than Western animation which shows a more cartoonish type look.

To: White Witch

“Aethos failed to read that last part right, taking in defense that you meant "American animation is better etc" when you didn't. Personally I will never tire of Tom&Jerry...I will most likely get bored of Inu Yasha before I give that up. Nice series to watch, but I have no motivation to buy it.”

Just as I have no intention of ever buying Tom and Jerry or Looney Tunes videos. Sure they may have been funny the first fifty billion times you’ve seem them but they’re so monotonous now.

“Which brings me to this word "bored". Talk to some anime fans that have seen Chobits 2 years ago by bootleg or digisub and the most likely answer will be "I have lost interest in it" Why do people lose interest in anime so quickly? “

Well why do people get tired of an RPG after they’re done playing it? Mainly because the story is told and there’s nothing left to tell.

“Yeah I know people are sick of it but I am going to use it anyway "Sailor Moon". I find a fan a person who can stick to a series even after its gone, they will still show a feeling for it even if they have moved on to another series, but I've seen more of "I have grown out of Sailor Moon and realized its a kiddy show, I'm into -insert some new so called mature anime title' now"”

Yeah but there are still many who stick on to it, it’s the same with pokemon

“I can watch SpongeBob, and PPG for hours and still tune into catch Bugs Bunny! I don't know why I guess I still got an attachment.”

Eh I got tired of those long ago, They’re not even funny anymore maybe in my opinion they just lost that magical touch they once had.

"It takes an open-minded person to admit they are close-minded...isn't that funny!! XD"

But how can a person be open minded if they’re close minded to begin with. That is the answer you should find grasshopper.

I understand Anime better but I'm losing interest in Anime. Otaku and the cliches. The anti DBZ site one commentator planned on making. I've emailed her she said its still in progress. She made it because DBZ fans were acting like assholes and Anime Purists as well. I'm not against censored anime for one reason it keeps those brats outta my hair. I'm against Censored Anime because of one reason. It's not about cultural diversity or entertaining children it's more about money. I think Anime distributors and a certain Network I will not name have gone whore for the anime gravy train. I'm not for banning Anime I just wish Anime industries will consider the diversity of their audience more. Not everybody like Josei Ni not everybody likes DBZ putz. What about more adventures in the realm of imagination and less of the Foodons,Meda bots etc. etc.

I asked by Gretchen why she didn't like Anime. She likes one Anime though Final Fantasy Spirits within. I like Anime. Saying I love it would be frighteningly inaccurate. She said"I don't care for serious cartoons,I don't like the style" I love the cartoons I grew up with. See. There are other reasons why people hate anime other than the Typical it's for perverts,losers,etc etc. Paul doesn't care for anime either his reasons similar to Gretchens. Food for thought.

It's everywhere. I detest DBZ. Don't bother trying to persuade me to like DBZ , SM, Pocket Monsters, YU GI Oh! Corny Dragontesticle Z is invading my living room. I almost want to sign or start a Ban Anime Petition. The same Damn argument about the Japanese version being so much better 'cause of swearing ,blood and the usual blather. It's a stupid toy commercial. I hate DBZ period. Don't harrass me with you've seen the shitty dub. My response: Shit smells like Shit, calling a kettle black.... The characters annoy me. Especially that bitch Videl.

You people have no respect for other living people. First of all anime isn't about the talent it's all about the plot. You take Zoids - any season - for example. It wouldn't be the same if they made some idiotic movie out of it. Like who would play Van? Mel Gibson? Nadda. No. If you couldn't draw but you wrote amazing scripts anime might be a solution. Secondly the way you people talk makes me want to vomit and then swallow it and then vomit it again, feed it to my dog, watch him vomit it and then swallow that. Do yourselves a favor and pick up a dictionary on the way home from buying groceries. Joey is out.

Okay, if this is going to turn out into a gross-out contest... Honestly. That only goes to show how immature some people can be. Has it occured to you that there are other ways to argue a point other than being rude, vulgar, and disgusting? Take a lesson from people like Jason and Light Guardian. >_< You know, intelligent people. Oh, by the way, it wasn't DiC that made Uranus and Neptune cousins. It was Cloverway. A bit of useless information for you all. DiC dubbed the first two seasons into English, Cloverway did the second two, and the fifth season hasn't been dubbed yet. >< It's an honest mistake, though. Anyway, if y'all want me to leave...or shut up now...I will.

You people have no respect for other living people.

That's not true. We have respect for many living people. For example, I respect talk show host Bill Maher. Tennis great Boris Becker. Eddie J. Schmidt of Tucson, Arizona. And Pope Gregory IX. I respect those people a great deal. Curiously, none of them create or follow anime or manga. Probably a coincidence.

Oh wait, Gregory IX is dead.

You take Zoids

You take Zoids...please! Badoom ching!

First of all anime isn't about the talent

We noticed.

it's all about the plot. You take Zoids - any season - for example. It wouldn't be the same if they made some idiotic movie out of it. Like who would play Van? Mel Gibson?

If anime succeeds mainly on plot, what difference would it make who you cast as this "Van" entity? If plot is so important, Mel Gibson, Mel Torme, that great thespian Carrot Top or a large talking Walrus named "Harold" should be able to play him.

If you couldn't draw but you wrote amazing scripts anime might be a solution.

Are you saying the ability to draw is not essential to anime? You know anime fans, you make it no fun for us to bash anime when you "defend" it like this.

Secondly the way you people talk makes me want to vomit and then swallow it and then vomit it again, feed it to my dog, watch him vomit it and then swallow that. Do yourselves a favor and pick up a dictionary on the way home from buying groceries.

Good advice. I have acquired a dictionary. Here's a word it taught me:

Emetophilia: arousal from vomit or vomitting. Also known as a "Roman Shower."

There's no word for what you're into that I could find though. Since you involve your dog I think you've invented a new fetish. How does Bestialic Emetophiliac sound? Or Emeto-Bestiality might roll off the tongue better, no pun intended.

Thank you.

People are really passionate about anime aren't they? (see subject line).

The chic who said "Watch you mouth" sounds like a Zoids fan.

I'm surprised Jason still has the patience to battle in this "debate" (if anime is really worth debating over). How long ago has it been since the article was posted? roughly 3-4 years i believe. Or maybe this is his sponge to soak up his oozing sarcasm which is eagerly squeezed out and lapped up by all-too-eager fans like myself. You are my hero.

ok, for one thing, i fault the article and all of you who have so vehemently condemned anime for not actually citing real reasons that it sucks. you just keep on saying you hate it and that you're tired of it. i personally love anime, but take it from a real otaku (japanese for fanboy), most otaku hate dragonball, pokemon, yugioh, zoids, and that fucked up hamster show on cartoon network.

anime can basically be defined as serious cartoons, or animated features meant for adults. the japanese have just managed to include it into their culture much more than americans have. the kiddy stuff is pretty much the same as the american kids cartoons. also, regarding your "categories" of anime, there is a lot out there that just doesn't fit into your boundaries. you mentioned princess mononoke. i would reccomend perfect blue, metropolis, grave of the fireflies, and lain.

any animated feature serves the purpose of producing a film with an imagination fueled storyline, interesting and unique characters, and fantastic sequences that wow the eyes, all on an extremely low budget. many of these films have been given outstanding reviews by roger ebert and other reknowned critics. also, not every creator draws their characters the same as the others. peter chung is a good example of this. another advantage of anime is the fact that actors cannot be type cast or given roles based on what they look like. there is no discrimination in the world of voice acting. anyway, when you badmouth something like anime which has obviously been widely accepted in america, please give real opinions, and not just "it sucks cuz it sucks!" also, thank you for not saying the word japanimation at all. i fuckin hate that.

also, i just thought id point out something about hentai. now i don't watch hentai, and i don't advocate it. keep that in mind. the japanese have some of the most depraved porn in the world, cartoon and non. there are of course the rape fetishists, but there are also gore fetishists who get off on pictures of little girls in suitcases with their limbs hacked off, but they're still alive. the interesting thing here is that in japan they have one of the lowest rates of actual rape and sexual crimes in the world. chew on that.

Great point you made, I agree whole heartedly. You know they're running half way decent animes on Tech TV now. Maybe those will suit your fantasy tastes

i fault the article and all of you who have so vehemently condemned anime for not actually citing real reasons that it sucks.

The article claimed that they were repetitive, full of visual cliches and often made no sense. Those are real reasons.

you just keep on saying you hate it and that you're tired of it.

This a perfectly legitimate position to take.

i personally love anime, but take it from a real otaku (japanese for fanboy), most otaku hate dragonball, pokemon, yugioh, zoids, and that fucked up hamster show on cartoon network.

Ah, yet another anime elitist. "I am REAL anime fan! Not like those OTHER losers! No sir! My taste is SO MUCH BETTER than all that other losers! I watch REAL shows, not that other pretend garbage those OTHER people watch!"

anime can basically be defined as serious cartoons, or animated features meant for adults.

It sounds like you're trying to extend the definition of anime. Most North American fans use anime as a generic term for animation originating from Japan. Does this mean that an adult cartoon from the Czech Republic is anime? How about Heavy Metal, is that anime? And does this mean Pokemon is NOT anime?

And speaking of the ol' "anime is for adults" mantra, the idea that American cartoons were always meant for children is a myth that anime fans cling to desperately. American animation got its start in an era when people would go to see movies several times a week, because there was no television. They would get dressed as though going to church, and they would watch several features, including a news reel and a cartoon. If you watch early, uncensored Warner Brothers cartoons, you will see they were clearly aimed an older audience. They even released a series of WWII propaganda cartoons featuring Bugs Bunny dressing up as Hitler and Stalin. Children just happened to like the images of cartoon rabbits doing silly things, so they gradually began to make cartoons that catered to them. In some cases, such as Popeye, language even had to be toned down. Hell, even when the Flintstones debuted, it debuted in prime time, not Saturday morning.

Even today, the most successful and longest running animated series ever is The Simpsons. Children love it, but is it aimed primarily at them? Oh, and can we call it anime, since it's aimed at adults?

also, not every creator draws their characters the same as the others. peter chung is a good example of this.

Aeon Flux's Peter Chung? You really are trying to broaden the definition of anime. He was born in Hong Kong and began his animation career in Virginia. How can he be considered a creator of anime?

another advantage of anime is the fact that actors cannot be type cast or given roles based on what they look like. there is no discrimination in the world of voice acting.

Voice work also pays less than a flesh and blood apperance, and actors are easier to replace since you only need someone who sounds like the character. Anime is so oppressive.

japan they have one of the lowest rates of actual rape and sexual crimes in the world. chew on that.

And chew on this: Japan has the highest suicide rate of any industrialized nation. According to a report by Michael Zielenziger, 600 people kill themselves in Japan per week. Apparently suicide kills more people than automobile accidents or even cancer in Japan annually. Hmm. The nation from which anime was spawned has the highest suicide rate in the industrialized world. I wish I'd known this during the "anime is unhealthy" exchange.

Isha: I'm surprised Jason still has the patience to battle in this "debate"

It's good exercise. Plus I am bored.

Anime is just entertainment. Nothing to go spastic about. I'm not a big fan of anime. Speaking of cartoons which includes anime. Let me make one thing clear. Cartoons aren't meant to be thought provoking and enlightenening. They are creative shorts that are based on thoughtful observation and abstract landscapes of the Artists imagination. If cartoons are thought provoking what do we need books?

"Anime is just entertainment."

Well yes it's a form of media so you could say it is entertainment couldn't you?

"Nothing to go spastic about."

Ah yet people do, just like a star trek fan will go spastic if you tell them Captain Kirk isn't real. There was one time in High School where there was this one upperclassman who liked the Mets. Nothing wrong with that but a lot of people would say something along the lines of

"So how's bout them Mets"

and the guy would freak out mainly because the Mets.......well hadn't really won any games that season.

"I'm not a big fan of anime. Speaking of cartoons which includes anime. Let me make one thing clear. Cartoons aren't meant to be thought provoking and enlightenening."

I remember there being some cartoons that were enlighting like Winnie the Pooh or that Cartoon All Stars movie that was supposed to teach kids the dangers of smoking. Sure they might not be thought provoking or enlighting as you say shows like Sesame Street are but there have been a few occassions where they have been.

"They are creative shorts that are based on thoughtful observation and abstract landscapes of the Artists imagination."

I could see that with Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry but with a cartoon/anime with a plot is that also about the abstract imagination of the artist's imagination? Or is it the creators imagination at work.

"If cartoons are thought provoking what do we need books?"

Well books were around before TV. Then again, however, a lot of the books brought out back then were also for entertainment. Authors like Shakespear, Homer, Sophocles they were some of the most well known authors and they made beautiful plays and stories. Are you saying these aren't thought provoking as well? Books are made to educate us but they are also there to entertain us as well, same as TV.

"Fault the article and all of you who have so vehemently condemned anime for not actually citing real reasons that it sucks.

The article claimed that they were repetitive, full of visual cliches and often made no sense. Those are real reasons."

Of course those are visible reasons, that's mainly because a lot of anime is full of filler episodes. Meaning episodes not pertaining to the overall plot. It's basically a device used so they don't have to show reruns and they can work on getting the next part of the series dubbed. An example would be the entire Orange League season of Pokemon it was just a filler until Pokemon Johto was shipped over and dubbed.

"you just keep on saying you hate it and that you're tired of it.

This a perfectly legitimate position to take."

exactly, not all anti-anime supporters hate anime. Maybe they just hate a certain portion of it.

"i personally love anime, but take it from a real otaku (japanese for fanboy), most otaku hate dragonball, pokemon, yugioh, zoids, and that fucked up hamster show on cartoon network."

Hey now that's just rude sam da man I happen to like that certain hamster show but how can you not they're just sooooooo cute!

"Ah, yet another anime elitist. "I am REAL anime fan! Not like those OTHER losers! No sir! My taste is SO MUCH BETTER than all that other losers! I watch REAL shows, not that other pretend garbage those OTHER people watch!""

Yeah, anime fans should respect what other fans like not hate it because they think it's too kiddy. That's what I hate about X box supporters. They go and call the Gamecube's games kiddy, they call the people who like the games babies and they completely have no respect for the other fans. Basically it's not the X box itself it's mainly the fans which drive me away from it. (Although the fact that it's known to crash and that huge controller of theirs doesn't really make me like it either.) Anyway I love anime and all fans should be respected no matter if they like pokemon, DBZ or even Escaflowne.

"anime can basically be defined as serious cartoons, or animated features meant for adults.

It sounds like you're trying to extend the definition of anime. Most North American fans use anime as a generic term for animation originating from Japan. Does this mean that an adult cartoon from the Czech Republic is anime? How about Heavy Metal, is that anime? And does this mean Pokemon is NOT anime?"

In my opinion each country has their own form of entertainment there's American anime, Canadian Anime, Japanese Anime and so on. Each with their own style which set's them apart from each other. Yes I would consider Heavy Metal to be anime. Pokemon is an anime also because think about it Anime is short for Animation. You can classify any cartoon style as being Anime. The difference is that some people just look at American anime and just see the stuff on Nickalodeon or Disney movies which are for a younger audiance.

You have to admit American parents don't really want any mature cartoons on TV because they're trying to keep certain issues nonexistant. That's why in the 1980's early 1990's parents tried to cancel the simpsons because they thought Bart was a bad influence. They also thought he acted a little too "real." Parents also tried doing this to South Park as well because they bring up issues like homosexuality and drug abuse. Believe it or not parents want their children to grow up believing that these issues don't exist. Now parents are even trying to censor video games and music as well. In my opinion American parents would think it's the end of the world if a cartoon character said a cuss word or a video game featured sexual innuendo's and they blame the games for being bad influences when it's the parents fault to begin with. They didn't have to buy their child GTA3 and they didn't have to let them watch South Park but they did and in my opinion parents need to take a little more responsibility on what their children see.

"And speaking of the ol' "anime is for adults" mantra, the idea that American cartoons were always meant for children is a myth that anime fans cling to desperately. American animation got its start in an era when people would go to see movies several times a week, because there was no television. They would get dressed as though going to church, and they would watch several features, including a news reel and a cartoon. If you watch early, uncensored Warner Brothers cartoons, you will see they were clearly aimed an older audience. They even released a series of WWII propaganda cartoons featuring Bugs Bunny dressing up as Hitler and Stalin. Children just happened to like the images of cartoon rabbits doing silly things, so they gradually began to make cartoons that catered to them. In some cases, such as Popeye, language even had to be toned down. Hell, even when the Flintstones debuted, it debuted in prime time, not Saturday morning."

Exactly, you make a very valid point there.

"Even today, the most successful and longest running animated series ever is The Simpsons. Children love it, but is it aimed primarily at them? Oh, and can we call it anime, since it's aimed at adults?"

It's more like aimed for teenagers not adults. I rarely think that parents would want their seven year olds to watch the simpsons.

The article claimed that they were repetitive, full of visual cliches and often made no sense. Those are real reasons."

Of course those are visible reasons, that's mainly because a lot of anime is full of filler episodes.

You say that as though it justifies it.

In my opinion each country has their own form of entertainment

Only in your opinion? I'd say it was pretty certain each country has its own entertainment. With the possible exception of Belgium.

You can classify any cartoon style as being Anime.

I disagree. The general culture regards anime as being the style of cartoon orginating in Japan. If I went on an anime board and said that my favorite anime was "A Special Valentine With the Family Circus," (1978) I think someone would object strongly to my calling it anime.

It is technically correct to call Scottish people "British" because Scotland is part of Great Britain. But nobody who wanted to walk correctly for the rest of their life would dare call a Scot British.

By the way, "A Special Valentine With the Family Circus" kicks all Japanimation's ass.

Believe it or not parents want their children to grow up believing that these issues don't exist. Now parents are even trying to censor video games and music as well.

Oh Lord, you are generalizing here. "Parents" as in all parents?

It's more like aimed for teenagers not adults. I rarely think that parents would want their seven year olds to watch the simpsons.

"Rarely"? You mean you do think that occasionally, but not often?

I watched an episode of the Simpsons today that had Jefferson Airplane references. Later, there was one the referred to Three Mile Island. You need to be a little older than a teen to get these references. The show also got its start as segments on the Tracey Ullman Show, which was definitely not aimed at teens.

I didn't read the *really* recent posts in the interests of just wanting to get a post in here, but one question to Jason: Are you Pat Riley?

one question to Jason: Are you Pat Riley?

No.

Are you any relation to Troy Donahue?

All right all right forget the Pat Riley thing. That was stupid. But uh... man, I'm tellin you, these anime fools are trippin hard, man. I have no idea why they think something from some culture that was isolated from the rest of the world for centuries is all that. All I'm saying is, they need to break themselves. They're making themselves the crazy-ass punchline to a pointed joke Jason's gonna tell in a minute. Peace out. -D

Nah, don't sweat the first question. I have a cousin who plays in the NFL whose name is Troy. He's a running back.

keep flip-flopping the subject and author lines... duuur

"All right all right forget the Pat Riley thing. That was stupid. But uh... man, I'm tellin you, these anime fools are trippin hard, man."

But...uh dude.....uh should that mean that people who like anime should give it up? Hey that's your opinion but WE'RE trippin hard? I don't think so.

"I have no idea why they think something from some culture that was isolated from the rest of the world for centuries is all that."

Well maybe that's because we see something in it that you don't. I never really liked American cartoons except for Maybe GIJOE, He-Man, and The Real Ghostbusters as well as the disney afternoon cartoons but that's about it. Other then that the only American cartoon I even watch now is the simpsons and I've even gotten bored of that.

"All I'm saying is, they need to break themselves. They're making themselves the crazy-ass punchline to a pointed joke Jason's gonna tell in a minute. Peace out. -D"

Whatever, you didn't break my spirit. Though it's a wonder why you don't really know the reasons why anime fans support anime and yet you come on here and say that WE need to stop doing what we like just because you think that such things like sports or reality tv is better. Of course I know this is your opinion but you shouldn't just trash us like that without any reason at all. Looking at the past posts Aethos did the same thing when he first came on.

I'd like to present Tom Donahue as your typical Anti-anime supporter. They don't know why we like it, they just hate us because we like something they don't. If anything I can anticipate either two responses.

1. The all out cussing response of which he will call me many offensive names

2. The threat, he will threaten me because I somehow got him angry with my last statement. He will probably say that he'll kick my ass because I dared to oppose his opinion.

What I don't get, is what you see against us. Sure maybe there are people out there who take anime too far. Hoe do you know that all fans do though? Can you see every anime fan? Can you read their minds? Do you even know why they find anime so interesting? Maybe or maybe not. Tom Donahue if I offended you in anyway during that last message or this one I apologize but I want to state the facts and the fact is that Jason nor anyone else who hates anime knows what goes on in the mind of a fan. To us, you're just missing out on something we've grown to love. We can accept your hatred for anime, but don't take it out on the fans even the "elitists" as Jason calls them; it's just not right. Aethos and Guiding Light showed that there are knowledgable anime fans who know more than just anime. And I'm sure that there's many more like them out there who wouldn't come on just to cuss out the anti-anime supporters. So please anti-anime supporters don't hate the fans for what they love. If you hate anime that's one thing, hating the people who watch it is a whole different story.

I believe Pro-Anime supporter made a point. A point! About time and anime supporter did, although apparently some others did before, but comments accumulate so fast here its sometimes hard to catch the gems.

The thing is, man, I don't care if you like anime or not. But if you ask me if I like it, I gotta tell you no. Okay? That's all I'm saying. Be happy.

In any event, the average anime fan can't be any crazier than my insane aunt who won't STFU whenever I'm in her presence. (key word is "average") I don't hate every anime fan. I just hate the crazy ones. They are out there. Don't consider me a *crazy* anti-anime person whatever you do either.

I'd like to present Tom Donahue as your typical Anti-anime supporter. They don't know why we like it, they just hate us because we like something they don't.

No, we hate you because you can't stop talking about it.
If anything I can anticipate either two responses.

He wrote two responses. Both of your predictions were incorrect.

What I don't get, is what you see against us. Sure maybe there are people out there who take anime too far.

You just answered your own question.

Hoe do you know that all fans do though?

Every last anime fan I have ever encountered (and I have encountered many) could not live with someone who didn't like anime. Upon hearing that someone did not like anime, they just had to try to convert them. There have only been two exceptions, and I had to create them both--Otacon and Aethos. Everyone else patronizingly believed that anti-anime supporters just misunderstood them, or were watching the wrong kind of anime. And gosh, if you just gave their kind of anime a chance you'd be a drooling fan who couldn't discuss anything else too.

Do you even know why they find anime so interesting?

It starts where all cult interests start. Anime is slightly out of the mainstream, so Joe Average will not know about it, yet it's not too hard to discover on your own. So you get to play the additional role of collector and investigator as you follow anime--you search around for the kinds you like, and you get to determine which of these treasures is the most valuable. Soon, you become a mini-expert on your little corner of your interest. And you just love to show off your knowledge.

The absolute worst thing that could happen to anime fans is for anime to become ingrained in North American culture. Everyone would know about it, and it wouldn't be as much fun to be a fan because then you wouldn't have your own little secret garden.

I want to state the facts and the fact is that Jason nor anyone else who hates anime knows what goes on in the mind of a fan.

And yet you don't hesistate to describe Tom Donahue as a "typical Anti-anime supporter." So you know what goes on in all anti-anime supporters' heads? Since you tried to predict his behavior and failed, reconsider that position.

I would also argue that I may not be able to read minds, but I do see an awful lot of "fan mail" from anime fans, and a lot of it falls into a pattern.

To us, you're just missing out on something we've grown to love.

Thank you for proving my point. It's an extremely patronizing position to take. I like it, I just assumed you would too. Gosh, if you'd just give my anime a chance, you'd love it too. You don't know what you're missing.

Did you know that the greatest TV show ever created in the history of the universe is "Who's The Boss" starring Tony Danza, Judith Light, Catherine Helmond and a young Alyssa Milano? I think so anyway. You've probably seen a few episodes and don't agree that it is the greatest TV show ever, but IF I JUST EXPLAIN TO YOU OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND NEVER STOP TALKING ABOUT IT, I'M SURE YOU'LL COME AROUND TO MY WAY OF THINKING. If you don't, you don't know what you're missing. Why, there was this great episode where Tony...

We can accept your hatred for anime, but don't take it out on the fans even the "elitists" as Jason calls them; it's just not right.

I'm sorry, but I find anime fans far more offensive than anime itself. Neon Evangelion Whatsit goes away if I ignore it. Fans of that show are much harder to dispose of. And I am perfectly within my rights to take it out on them. This is not passive behavior, it's active. They come to me. I feel justified in retaliating.

Aethos and Guiding Light showed that there are knowledgable anime fans who know more than just anime.

Aethos I have a new respect for because he was finally able to understand what I was driving at. Would you care to be number three? But even Aethos showed critical flaws in his thinking, frequently contradicting himself. Guilding Light's arguments are very shakey as well. I don't think he's even got the correct definition of anime.

So please anti-anime supporters don't hate the fans for what they love. If you hate anime that's one thing, hating the people who watch it is a whole different story.

The people who watch it aren't the problem. The people who talk about it are.

Though it's a wonder why you don't really know the reasons why anime fans support anime and yet you come on here and say that WE need to stop doing what we like just because you think that such things like sports or reality tv is better.

Has anyone actually read the article? Other than Jason and myself, that is.

I've watched plenty of anime`, something that seems to be highly encouraged by anime` fans as a whole in order to appreciate it. Let me set one thing straight: I've seen tons of it. I've seen what people have defined as "gay" or as "good."

I did not like either.

If I had never watched any of it but freely bashed away at it, I don't think my arguments would stand a chance.

However, the difference between actual anime` and the anime` fans is that I do not go out of my way to dislike anime`. If I turn on the telly and anime` is on, I groan and flip the channel.

Anime` fans, on the other hand, work _really_ hard at trying to convince me otherwise.

leandro

To Tom Donahue, I'am sorry about the rude comments I made toward you but I was trying to prove a point with that statement of yours. It's the fact that Jason is possibly the only one who even KNOWS why anime fans fight for anime. I'm not saying that you're a cold hearted, mean spirited person. I was just going on the basis that anti anime supporters don't know why we like it and we don't know why anti anime supporters hate it. If anything Jason is neutral and knows both sides pretty well. Maybe if everyone in this argument was neutral we'd get a more intelligent debate other then "I hate it because I say so" or "I love it for these reasons"

Ok before I begin this I just want to say that I'm not trying to offend anybody in anyway, I will be using different so-called fads to prove my point. So if I offend anyone I apologize now and I want you to know that it was unintentional

"No, we hate you because you can't stop talking about it."

Oh and you say that as though WE'RE the only ones who do that? Heck I've seen a lot more Rap fans trying to convert me to like their music then I've seen anime fans trying to convert anyone to anime.

Also if you remember the rap community came out with a CD called "Makaveli" showing Tupac nailed to a cross with a crown of thorns on his head. Also these same people think that Tupac is still alive. Gee I don't ever think anime fans ever did that with an anime character. If they did though I'd like to hear your story.

"He wrote two responses. Both of your predictions were incorrect."

Probably because he's more mature then all the other anime haters I've seen

"You just answered your own question."

You don't even know what the question was. The question was what do you see against the fans who don't take it too far.

"Every last anime fan I have ever encountered (and I have encountered many) could not live with someone who didn't like anime."

Not true I have friends who don't like anime. If we don't get along it's because they like sports while I don't. Other than that I have many friends who aren't into anime yet they respect me and I respect them.

"Upon hearing that someone did not like anime, they just had to try to convert them."

That's only an assumption. The only fans who try to convert are the ones who aren't willing to give anything else the time of day. And I have yet to see one of these anime fans you speak of.

Ok before I begin this I just want to say that I'm not trying to offend anybody in anyway, I will be using different so-called fads to prove my point. So if I offend anyone I apologize now and I want you to know that it was unintentional

"No, we hate you because you can't stop talking about it."

Oh and you say that as though WE'RE the only ones who do that? Heck I've seen a lot more Rap fans trying to convert me to like their music then I've seen anime fans trying to convert anyone to anime.

Also if you remember the rap community came out with a CD called "Makaveli" showing Tupac nailed to a cross with a crown of thorns on his head. Also these same people think that Tupac is still alive. Gee I don't ever think anime fans ever did that with an anime character. If they did though I'd like to hear your story.

"He wrote two responses. Both of your predictions were incorrect."

Probably because he's more mature then all the other anime haters I've seen

"You just answered your own question."

You don't even know what the question was. The question was what do you see against the fans who don't take it too far.

"Every last anime fan I have ever encountered (and I have encountered many) could not live with someone who didn't like anime."

Not true I have friends who don't like anime. If we don't get along it's because they like sports while I don't. Other than that I have many friends who aren't into anime yet they respect me and I respect them.

"Upon hearing that someone did not like anime, they just had to try to convert them."

That's only an assumption. The only fans who try to convert are the ones who aren't willing to give anything else the time of day. And I have yet to see one of these anime fans you speak of.

"There have only been two exceptions, and I had to create them both--Otacon and Aethos. Everyone else patronizingly believed that anti-anime supporters just misunderstood them, or were watching the wrong kind of anime. And gosh, if you just gave their kind of anime a chance you'd be a drooling fan who couldn't discuss anything else too."

Or gosh maybe you'd see why people love anime do you think that's what they were trying to prove to you? Or did you take it as your "anime fans are nothing but religious zealots in the occult" card.

"It starts where all cult interests start."

You realize that Star Trek is the biggest cult interest right now? Why do you think William Shatner wrote a book about it called "Get a life" Oh but wait you seem to think that anime is the only cult in existance I forgot.

"Anime is slightly out of the mainstream, so Joe Average will not know about it, yet it's not too hard to discover on your own. So you get to play the additional role of collector and investigator as you follow anime--you search around for the kinds you like, and you get to determine which of these treasures is the most valuable. Soon, you become a mini-expert on your little corner of your interest. And you just love to show off your knowledge."

Yes just like Trekkies and yet I don't see you going against their way of living. As you know die hard trekkies dress like Enterprise crew members and carry phazors around with them along with a communicator. Anime fans may cosplay but these are for events such as conventions. You don't see anime fans doing that in real life not like Trekkies do. And Trekkies they can be even more annoying than anime fans when it comes to star wars fans. When star wars fans are around Trekkies become militant and will try to prove every aspect of Star Trek right while attempting to prove Star Wars wrong.

"The absolute worst thing that could happen to anime fans is for anime to become ingrained in North American culture. Everyone would know about it, and it wouldn't be as much fun to be a fan because then you wouldn't have your own little secret garden."

It's not about that. Let's see how can I put this. People hate anime dubbed for one reason only the fact that dubbers will change the anime so much that it will not make any sense. Take Card Captor Sakura for example, anime fans hated Nelvana for what they did at the end of the series because Sakura was not supposed to recieve the love card until the second movie and was supposed to get the hope card at the end of the show. However, in the dubbed version on kids WB Sakura recieves the Love card thus making the second movie non existant.

Also you have DBZ where FUNImation turned DBZ from a serious anime into an anime with all the drama drained out of it along with the fact that it now contained many corny puns and filler episodes that didn't need to be there.

Same thing happened with Sailor Moon, where the dubbers changed two of the sailors from Lesbian lovers into cousins. Which wouldn't have been a problem IF the fans already didn't know how the Japanese version went. If anime fans hadn't seen the Japanese version they probably wouldn't of had a problem with it. However, why the dubbers would change something so minor is beyond me.

"And yet you don't hesistate to describe Tom Donahue as a "typical Anti-anime supporter." So you know what goes on in all anti-anime supporters' heads? Since you tried to predict his behavior and failed, reconsider that position."

I think you settled that well with your past arguments calling people like us obsessive cult members.

"I would also argue that I may not be able to read minds, but I do see an awful lot of "fan mail" from anime fans, and a lot of it falls into a pattern."

And I've read a lot of "fan mail" on anime sites where anti anime supporters will call the webmasters gay or retarded or something like that.

"Thank you for proving my point. It's an extremely patronizing position to take. I like it, I just assumed you would too. Gosh, if you'd just give my anime a chance, you'd love it too. You don't know what you're missing."

Uh huh we're the bad guys for saying that. Yeah, you just keep thinking that.

"Did you know that the greatest TV show ever created in the history of the universe is "Who's The Boss" starring Tony Danza, Judith Light, Catherine Helmond and a young Alyssa Milano? I think so anyway. You've probably seen a few episodes and don't agree that it is the greatest TV show ever, but IF I JUST EXPLAIN TO YOU OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND NEVER STOP TALKING ABOUT IT, I'M SURE YOU'LL COME AROUND TO MY WAY OF THINKING. If you don't, you don't know what you're missing. Why, there was this great episode where Tony..."

Actually I never liked who's the boss, and I never really liked Tony Danza either. But I do love happy days like remember when Fonzie jumped those barrels on his bike? Or when he jumped the shark? Or how about Joanie and Chachi's wedding it was soooooo cute!

"I'm sorry, but I find anime fans far more offensive than anime itself. Neon Evangelion Whatsit goes away if I ignore it. Fans of that show are much harder to dispose of. And I am perfectly within my rights to take it out on them. This is not passive behavior, it's active. They come to me. I feel justified in retaliating."

So do we except you say we have no right to retaliate. After all you say that because we retaliate we prove your point.

"Aethos I have a new respect for because he was finally able to understand what I was driving at. Would you care to be number three? But even Aethos showed critical flaws in his thinking, frequently contradicting himself. Guilding Light's arguments are very shakey as well. I don't think he's even got the correct definition of anime."

I'm here because I have the right to be. This isn't your private club after all Jason. There are allowed to be people to contradict your arguments. Heaven forbid it's wrong for an anime fan to come here and say you're wrong. oooo it's the end of the world because that happened.

"The people who watch it aren't the problem. The people who talk about it are."

Wait wait wait you just said that it was the fans fault and the fans are the people who watch it. So if they aren't the problem neither are the people who talk about it.

"No, we hate you because you can't stop talking about it."
Oh and you say that as though WE'RE the only ones who do that?

I asked Aethos this, and I will ask you the same question: point out to me where I said "Anime fans are the only people in the universe who are obsessed with anything." A great many people are obsessed with a great many things. I just happen to find the ones who write into this forum to be a convenient target.

Gee I don't ever think anime fans ever did that with an anime character. If they did though I'd like to hear your story.

At first I was going to sting you for going on an irrelevant tangent, but it turns out that if you rant long enough you accidentally become relevant. I find it interesting that even anime itself has produced a movie lampooning anime fans--"Otaku No Video." According to reader description on Amazon, "Kubo becomes an obsessed anime fan and loses touch with reality." I realize this is a piece of fiction, but I find it interesting that they chose such subject matter. Whatever do you suppose inspired them?

You don't even know what the question was. The question was what do you see against the fans who don't take it too far.

No, your question was "What I don't get, is what you see against us." Then you wrote "there are people out there who take anime too far." That's the answer. Does it not bother you that I have to help you to interpret your own writing?

"Every last anime fan I have ever encountered (and I have encountered many) could not live with someone who didn't like anime."

Not true I have friends who don't like anime.

I have never met your friends. And it is true that I have never met an anime fan who could accept someone else not liking anime, with the exception of Aethos and Otacon.

"Upon hearing that someone did not like anime, they just had to try to convert them."
That's only an assumption. The only fans who try to convert are the ones who aren't willing to give anything else the time of day. And I have yet to see one of these anime fans you speak of.

You have never met an obsessed anime fan who tried to convert others? You must lead a sheltered life. Or not read the posts on this board. Even Aethos admitted they existed.

Or gosh maybe you'd see why people love anime do you think that's what they were trying to prove to you? Or did you take it as your "anime fans are nothing but religious zealots in the occult" card.

Hmm. All of the above words are in English. All of them are spelled correctly. Punctuation is weak, but there is a capital letter at the start and periods to indicate a sentence. It must be the order the words are in.

If you are trying to ask me what I think anime fans are attempting to prove here, I think they are trying to establish that they are not social misfits, that they are totally comfortable in their beliefs and the beliefs of others, that their community is well adjusted, and that their chosen interest is intelligent, artistic, and anywhere from acceptable to superior.

If you are asking me what anime fans are actually proving when they post here, it is that they are insecure and need to pay greater attention to sentence structure.

You realize that Star Trek is the biggest cult interest right now?

Which is why Star Trek: Nemesis drew far more at the box office than Attack of the Clones. Hmmm. I could be wrong about that one.

Oh but wait you seem to think that anime is the only cult in existance I forgot.

I said in my last post that "It starts where all cult interests start." Someone who believed there is only one cult would not write that. There are many cults. For example, did you know that the Catholic Church considers the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a cult? It's hardly relevant to this discussion, but if you can talk about Tupac Shakur, I can talk about the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Yes just like Trekkies and yet I don't see you going against their way of living.

Okay, would you like me to go against Star Trek fans? Would that make you happy? Would that set everything right with the world?

This forum is attached to an article about anime and anime fandom. You seem surprised to find discussion about anime and anime fandom on said forum. Instead you question why I am not talking about Star Trek in the forum on anime and anime fandom. Strange.

Also you have DBZ where FUNImation turned DBZ from a serious anime into an anime with all the drama drained out of it along with the fact that it now contained many corny puns and filler episodes that didn't need to be there.

Impressive. Now think of how much less fun that would be if everyone knew that because anime had become part of mainstream North American entertainment, like Seinfeld or Friends.

"And yet you don't hesistate to describe Tom Donahue as a "typical Anti-anime supporter." So you know what goes on in all anti-anime supporters' heads? Since you tried to predict his behavior and failed, reconsider that position."

I think you settled that well with your past arguments calling people like us obsessive cult members.

What?

"Thank you for proving my point. It's an extremely patronizing position to take. I like it, I just assumed you would too. Gosh, if you'd just give my anime a chance, you'd love it too. You don't know what you're missing."

Uh huh we're the bad guys for saying that. Yeah, you just keep thinking that.

So you admit it's true?

So do we except you say we have no right to retaliate. After all you say that because we retaliate we prove your point.

I don't say you have no right to retaliate. I say that your retaliation is a front for something else: insecurity.

I'm here because I have the right to be. This isn't your private club after all Jason. There are allowed to be people to contradict your arguments. Heaven forbid it's wrong for an anime fan to come here and say you're wrong. oooo it's the end of the world because that happened.

Ah, the ol' freedom of speech defense. How I've missed you so.

People are indeed allowed to contradict my arguments. They just don't seem to do it very well. But I think the "We're allowed to ya know" defence is a distraction from the real reason.

CoN is indeed not my private club. However, this anti-anime article was posted here. On an ezine website that has no anime focus. It is one article in a sea of hundreds on a wide variety of subjects. And it sat here for some time without comment. Then one day, an anime fan discovered it, and the dam broke. Since then, anime fans have been seeking it out, according to the webmaster, after examining the site's logs. Now, if it had been posted on an anime board, I could see the uproar. I would still say the same thing about insecurity, but I could I understand the reaction. What I find puzzling is that anime supporters come all the way over here for a fight. Perhaps because of an obsess--NO! SLAP! SLAP! FREEDOM OF SPEECH! SLAP! SLAP!

By the way, the next defense after the freedom of speech defense is that "I could care less [sic] about what you say anyway" gambit. I await it eagerly.

"The people who watch it aren't the problem. The people who talk about it are."

Wait wait wait you just said that it was the fans fault and the fans are the people who watch it. So if they aren't the problem neither are the people who talk about it.

Well, that's a fine bit of reasoning. So, all chihuahuas are dogs. And all dogs are chihuahuas? This may come as revelation to you, but there can be different groups of fans, those who watch, and those who talk.

"I asked Aethos this, and I will ask you the same question: point out to me where I said "Anime fans are the only people in the universe who are obsessed with anything." A great many people are obsessed with a great many things. I just happen to find the ones who write into this forum to be a convenient target."

You say that, yet you've also accused him of going off the subject just to bring in outside examples to prove his point and yet you are allowed to go off subject at will that doesn't seem fair does it?

"At first I was going to sting you for going on an irrelevant tangent, but it turns out that if you rant long enough you accidentally become relevant."

I may bring in outside sources that are in DIFFERENT kinds of media to prove my point but that is the idea. Geez if I were to just base it all on anime as well as speculation then you'd come back with that I don't have any "Proof."

"I find it interesting that even anime itself has produced a movie lampooning anime fans--"Otaku No Video." According to reader description on Amazon, "Kubo becomes an obsessed anime fan and loses touch with reality." I realize this is a piece of fiction, but I find it interesting that they chose such subject matter. Whatever do you suppose inspired them?"

So what? You're basing a work of fiction on a single group of people. Let me set the records straight the book by William Shatner was not a work of fiction. He was actually being serious and even on an episode of Saturday Night Live he was even trying to be serious during a star trek convention sketch. The audience as well as Trekkers found it humorous but Shatner was being completely serious. The day I see an anime curator write a book or come on TV telling anime fans to get a life, that is the day I'll believe that statement to be valid.

"No, your question was "What I don't get, is what you see against us." Then you wrote "there are people out there who take anime too far." That's the answer. Does it not bother you that I have to help you to interpret your own writing?"

Ah, now you're twisting my words around to make you seem right. What I said was "What I don't get is, what do you see against us" I then followed up recognizing that there are such things as obsessive fans but I didn't answer myself directly. To reemphasize the question I'll ask it in a more simple way so you can understand it.

"What do you see against anime fans that aren't obsessive or in your little occult classification?"

Was that simple enough? Or do I need to ask it again?

"I have never met your friends. And it is true that I have never met an anime fan who could accept someone else not liking anime, with the exception of Aethos and Otacon."

Well I have never met any of these anime fans who aren't willing to try anything else. The whole idea of this whole obsessive anime fan nonsense seems to come from the anti anime extremists who seem to think everything is evil and that anime fans live in some kind of ritualistic cult.

"You have never met an obsessed anime fan who tried to convert others? You must lead a sheltered life. Or not read the posts on this board. Even Aethos admitted they existed."

First off I have never lived a sheltered life, but you must have or you might know that there are anime fans that don't try to convert others.

Second, I may have not seen any of these so-called "fans" you speak of but if I did maybe I would concede to you being right.

"Hmm. All of the above words are in English. All of them are spelled correctly. Punctuation is weak, but there is a capital letter at the start and periods to indicate a sentence. It must be the order the words are in."

I wouldn't talk oh master of fragmented sentences and misplaced punctuation.

"If you are trying to ask me what I think anime fans are attempting to prove here, I think they are trying to establish that they are not social misfits, that they are totally comfortable in their beliefs and the beliefs of others, that their community is well adjusted, and that their chosen interest is intelligent, artistic, and anywhere from acceptable to superior."

True, we're just trying to prove we're normal human beings. Not mindless obsessive robots that see anime as their only source of fuel.

"If you are asking me what anime fans are actually proving when they post here, it is that they are insecure and need to pay greater attention to sentence structure."

That's by your standards though I think Aethos did a pretty good job at proving you wrong and again you bring up the punctuation. So are you saying you're perfect? Why don't you try checking your own before you criticize mine as well?

"Which is why Star Trek: Nemesis drew far more at the box office than Attack of the Clones. Hmmm. I could be wrong about that one."

Then again do we see Star Wars fans dressing up like Jedi Knights or Sith Lords to every single thing in their lives besides opening premiere's for new movies. Face it people have done the same thing with LOTR but I don't see people walking around dressed like hobbits.

"I said in my last post that "It starts where all cult interests start." Someone who believed there is only one cult would not write that. There are many cults. For example, did you know that the Catholic Church considers the Jehovah's Witnesses to be a cult? It's hardly relevant to this discussion, but if you can talk about Tupac Shakur, I can talk about the Jehovah's Witnesses."

Finally, you bring up the subject of "other" cult interests now this is where it gets interesting. So let's bring out a few more shall we the church both Catholic and Protestant alike call Aetheists a cult as well as Apyscapaleins. People call rap, pop, and rock cults. Same thing with movies being called "cult classics." So I realize that there are other cults out there but I just wanted to hear you say it yourself.

"Okay, would you like me to go against Star Trek fans? Would that make you happy? Would that set everything right with the world?"

Of course not but you can't say that anime is the only bad cult interest in the world without pointing out all the rest. That's just being biggoted and biased that's what makes a good arguer; their willing to go beyond the initial statement and bring out many examples so if you were saying that all cult interests are bad then anime would be considered valid but to set it seperate from all the others just tells me you resent and hate anime with a passion. It also tells me that you think all cult interests but anime are good if you're going to take it like that then your Jehova witnesses statement doesn't count for anything unless you're willing to recognize the fact that there are more bad cult interests besides anime.

During the course of your arguments with Otacon and Aethos, you seemed to only imply that you believe all cult interests are bad and that anime is one of them. But you have never really said that you do believe that anime is just one of many bad cult interests. Do you understand what I'm saying?

"This forum is attached to an article about anime and anime fandom. You seem surprised to find discussion about anime and anime fandom on said forum. Instead you question why I am not talking about Star Trek in the forum on anime and anime fandom. Strange"

Geez do you not hear anything that I say, I'm saying that you can't just classify anime as the ONLY bad cult interest. In a debate everything goes as long as you keep it related to the topic and to prove your point. I was pointing out that Star Trek fandom is worse than anime fandom.

"Impressive. Now think of how much less fun that would be if everyone knew that because anime had become part of mainstream North American entertainment, like Seinfeld or Friends."

True, but then again if North America did treat mainstream anime like Seinfeld, Friends, or even South Park they wouldn't have to censor all that much out of it.

"And yet you don't hesistate to describe Tom Donahue as a "typical Anti-anime supporter." So you know what goes on in all anti-anime supporters' heads? Since you tried to predict his behavior and failed, reconsider that position."

I think you settled that well with your past arguments calling people like us obsessive cult members.

What?"

Well let's see first off you claim Aethos and Otacon to be your typical anime fans who have no respect for anyone's interests but their own then through the course of the argument you consider them to be nothing more than anime "elitists," as well as obsessive cult members who see anything that isn't anime stupid, and you even showed your true colors here with this statement:

"We hate you because you don't stop talking about it"

"So you admit it's true?"

No because I feel that we are allowed to say that, especially since most anti anime supporters have never watched an anime in their entire lives but are willing to just call it stupid because it's popular. That's why we tell anti anime supporters to give it a chance and maybe you haven't seen the right one. We don't say it just because we feel like it ya know.

"Ah, the ol' freedom of speech defense. How I've missed you so.

People are indeed allowed to contradict my arguments. They just don't seem to do it very well. But I think the "We're allowed to ya know" defence is a distraction from the real reason."

That's not the way you put it, you basically say that if anime fans ignore your comments that proves to you that they actually have lives. So in a sense what you're saying is:

"a anime fan does not have a life if they even try to contradict your arguments they must be very sad people with no real life whatsoever."

"CoN is indeed not my private club. However, this anti-anime article was posted here. On an ezine website that has no anime focus. It is one article in a sea of hundreds on a wide variety of subjects. And it sat here for some time without comment. Then one day, an anime fan discovered it, and the dam broke. Since then, anime fans have been seeking it out, according to the webmaster, after examining the site's logs. Now, if it had been posted on an anime board, I could see the uproar. I would still say the same thing about insecurity, but I could I understand the reaction. What I find puzzling is that anime supporters come all the way over here for a fight. Perhaps because of an obsess--NO! SLAP! SLAP! FREEDOM OF SPEECH! SLAP! SLAP!"

Maybe because they want their opinions to be heard, is that wrong for anime fans to do?

"By the way, the next defense after the freedom of speech defense is that "I could care less [sic] about what you say anyway" gambit. I await it eagerly."

And I await your biggest defense "If you just go away then you're not an obsessive fan"

Just some questions out of sheer curiosity about your debating skills - I hope you don't mind. If you do, please just ignore me.

What field of work are you in or planning to be in?

How do you manage to find the time to write so many rebuttals? Is this a hobby?

Any general tips on getting good at debating? Any strategies?

In advance, thank you very much for taking the time to read this post.

Thanks again.

you've also accused him of going off the subject just to bring in outside examples to prove his point and yet you are allowed to go off subject at will that doesn't seem fair does it?

You weren't accusing me of going off the subject. You, as Aethos, were accusing me of saying that there are no other obsessive people besides anime fans.

I may bring in outside sources that are in DIFFERENT kinds of media to prove my point but that is the idea.

Ah yes, about that point. Thank you for raising it because I never got around to tossing that ball back at Aethos. Upon hearing someone say that anime was unhealthy, Aethos seemed hell bent on saying that other forms of entertainment were just as detrimental. His example was boy bands. For your part, someone accuses anime fans of being obsessive losers, and your response is essentially that rap fans are worse.

The Maginot line offered up better defense of France than anime fans have of their passion so far.

The audience as well as Trekkers found it humorous but Shatner was being completely serious. The day I see an anime curator write a book or come on TV telling anime fans to get a life, that is the day I'll believe that statement to be valid.

The SNL sketch, for however much Shatner agreed with the sentiment, was a piece of humorous fiction. "Otaku No Video" is a piece of fiction, no doubt created by people who work with and understand anime, and had something to say about their audience. I don't see much difference.

As to his book, here's a passage from said book regard Kirk's death in Generations. "I found myself grieving. I felt guilty, melancholy, and depressed over a fictional funeral. Had there always been a deeper connection than I was willing to admit? Was Star Trek really that important to me? Had I always been a fan?"

Ah, now you're twisting my words around to make you seem right.

Twisting your words? I quoted you.

"What do you see against anime fans that aren't obsessive or in your little occult classification?"

Was that simple enough? Or do I need to ask it again?

No, that will do just fine.

And your answer: I have only ever encountered two anime fans who were not obsessive--Aethos and Otacon. The classification is not a little one.

First off I have never lived a sheltered life, but you must have or you might know that there are anime fans that don't try to convert others.

I assume you count yourself amongst these mythical beasts?

True, we're just trying to prove we're normal human beings. Not mindless obsessive robots that see anime as their only source of fuel.

I know an excellent way you can prove this. Care to take a guess what it is?

That's by your standards though I think Aethos did a pretty good job at proving you wrong and again you bring up the punctuation. So are you saying you're perfect? Why don't you try checking your own before you criticize mine as well?

Give Aethos his full credit. He did an excellent job at proving me wrong. He stopped posting. Will you be the next person to defeat me? I can only hope.

My messages are not perfect. Nor did I ever claim them to be. However, they were far better written than yours, and while you might find it insulting or nitpicking, I honestly believe that the manner in which you wrote your messages was having a negative impact on their clarity. If something I write is not clear to you, please point it out and I will explain or correct it.

I notice that in these last two responses, there has been a dramatic improvement in your grammar and sentence structure. Did you do that because of me? I'm honoured.

Finally, you bring up the subject of "other" cult interests now this is where it gets interesting. So let's bring out a few more shall we the church both Catholic and Protestant alike call Aetheists a cult as well as Apyscapaleins.

Must...resist...cheap...shot... Losing...strength...arrggh... That's a very creative spelling of "Episcopalians." Sorry, I tried to resist. You were doing so well too.

Of course not but you can't say that anime is the only bad cult interest in the world without pointing out all the rest.

See, now when you write things like that--"you can't say that anime is the only bad cult interest in the world without pointing out all the rest" it sounds like YOU believe that anime is a bad cult interest. That ties in with my earlier point on your analysis of rap. And my theory on anime fan insecurity.

That's just being biggoted and biased that's what makes a good arguer

Actually, the bigoted and biased tend to be lousy arguers. Lack of research, relying on hearsay or unproven assumptions.

to set it seperate from all the others just tells me you resent and hate anime with a passion.

I see. So if I were to list all the cults I have a grievance with on this board and insult them, you could accept what I'm saying about anime fans?

Again I ask why you are so surprised to find me talking about anime and anime fans in a forum attached to an article on these subjects. Wouldn't you find it strange if were writing long posts about why I think Richard I was a bad king?

It also tells me that you think all cult interests but anime are good if you're going to take it like that then your Jehova witnesses statement doesn't count for anything unless you're willing to recognize the fact that there are more bad cult interests besides anime.

Careful, Pro-Anime Supporter. It wasn't my statement. I said the Catholic Church considers them to be a cult. I didn't say whether I consider them a cult or not. I just said other cults exist. You read the Aethos exchange, you should know to be more careful and not to make such assumptions.

By the way, do you have anything on the Internet about the Catholic Church considering atheism and Episcopal churches to be cults? I'm not challenging the assertion, merely curious. It's one of my pet interests and I'd like to read more about it.

But you have never really said that you do believe that anime is just one of many bad cult interests. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Yes. I've also never said if I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. But the absence of one statement does not prove I believe the opposite. You're arguing that I said I hate all animals because I said I don't like dogs.

Geez do you not hear anything that I say, I'm saying that you can't just classify anime as the ONLY bad cult interest.

Do you not read anything I write? I did not say that I "classify anime as the ONLY bad cult interest." You only assumed I did.

I was pointing out that Star Trek fandom is worse than anime fandom.

I am tempted to defect to the side of anime because you guys really need help. Is this the best you can offer? "Star Trek fandom is worse than anime fandom"?

That's why we tell anti anime supporters to give it a chance and maybe you haven't seen the right one. We don't say it just because we feel like it ya know.

I see. Have you succeed in turning someone who writes "anime is for losers and homos" into a fan? Know anyone who has?

That's not the way you put it, you basically say that if anime fans ignore your comments that proves to you that they actually have lives.
"a anime fan does not have a life if they even try to contradict your arguments they must be very sad people with no real life whatsoever."

Not quite. It should read "An anime fan who doesn't bother arguing with me is content and comfortable with his interest."

Maybe because they want their opinions to be heard, is that wrong for anime fans to do?

Or maybe it is insecurity.

And I await your biggest defense "If you just go away then you're not an obsessive fan"

If you just go away then you're not an obsessive fan.

I am an animation lover. As such, I'm open to all kinds. Independent films, Disney (despite what many people think, and despite the company's best efforts to downplay this fact, Walt Disney made films for an all-age audience, like the majority of filmmakers did during his era), Ralph Bakshi, "The Simpsons" and some Japanese material. I only recently discovered anime, and since then I've formed some opinions.
I think the majority of television shows produced over there *are* formulaic and repeititive. However, until recently, the American TV animation industry was, if anything, worse. Think the '70s. All those horrible superhero shows and sitcom adaptations. Brainless writing and animation that was bad without even interesting designs to back it up. Things have been gradually getting better over the last fifteen years. I think the anime industry is in a rut and needs to free itself from its dependence on manga. That being said, I tend to like manga better than anime, since anime is often just a watered-down commercial for the comic. I don't view the anime industry any differently from the film/TV industry over here...98% is crap. You gotta work hard to find the stand-outs, the series that actually present some ideas to you, or that entertain you on a level you're comfortable with. I apologize if anyone has brought this up already (I don't have time to read every post) but no one should dismiss the entire Japanese animation industry without seeing any of the films made by Studio Ghibli. For those of you who absolutely hate the thought of "anime", Ghibli's films have nothing to do with any of the stereotyped images that people hate. These movies, created mostly by Isao Takahata and Hayao Miyazaki are, at the very least, worth a look. I won't start hyping their virtues here, but some of you have probably heard of them and dismissed them ("Kiki's Delivery Service", "Castle in the Sky", "Grave of the Fireflies", "My Neighbor Totoro"). Please give them a look. Yes they are slowly paced, very quiet, and very atmospheric, which many people are not used to, but if you just disassociate them with everything you perceive about "anime" that you hate, you may be in for at least a pleasant surprise, at best a rollicking good time. By the way, you should know that the creators of these films have many of the same complaints against they bulk of the Japanese animation industry that some of you have.

I am flattered that you ask. You risk feeding my already grotesque ego.

What field of work are you in or planning to be in?

I plan to do no work whatsoever if I can possibly get away with it.

How do you manage to find the time to write so many rebuttals? Is this a hobby?

The work I currently do means constant time on the Internet. That, and insomnia provide the time.

Any general tips on getting good at debating? Any strategies?

Here's an excellent way to get good at it. Find something that you absolutely, 100 percent do not agree with. That nobody could agree with. Like that oxygen is bad for humans and people should not breathe, only find a position less rational than that. Then agree with it and attempt to defend that position against all comers. This is excellent practice. It will force you to be outlandish and creative. Keep it up. By the time you get around to more mundane subjects, they'll be much easier to debate.

Hope this helps.

A very oversimplified version of the story so far (this debate is helping me with my English homework in ways I never imagined!):

Pro-Anime:

1) Not all anime fans are obsessed - contradiction of Anti-Anime number 1

2) There are good animes out there - contradiction of a point in the original article

Anti-Anime:

1) The anime fans that stand out (as many radical (as in fundamentalist) cultural and social do) exhibit a tendency towards obsession (I believe Freud would call it overvaluation of the object).

2) Anime fans tend to have poor spelling; for which I have a theory (to be politically correct it only refers to those who are obsessed):

I ran up the doors
opened the stairs. Said my pyjamas Put on my prayers Turned off my bed Jumped into the light Just because you kissed me A sweet goodnight.

The above poem is more of a grammar mix-up, but does everyone get the picture anyway? Anime holds something special for those who travel on the path of fandom.

Or perhaps the Anime fans with particularly poor grammar are merely Internet geeks who have forgotten what English is meant to look like (the connection between anime-fans and geeks is astounding...no offense intended, g33kz0rs r L337).

In defense of my possibly insulting appeared bias towards the Anti-Anime case, yes I am biased towards the Anti-anime case. I am also a completely obsessed anime fan (particularly of Evangelion). Why do think I'm still here?

P.S. I've just realised how ambiguous some of the stuff I said is. Sorry. I'm posting anyway. Any comments on my use of intertextuality? It would really help me pass English...

I meant to add to the Anti-Anime points that they were original, i.e. not merely a contradiction (I hope that's the right word). i.e.

Sally: "You're a liar!"
Mary: "No, I'm not!"

(this debate is helping me with my English homework in ways I never imagined!):

We're educational too. Leo, maybe you should charge admission.

Your summary of the debate is pretty good, but I think it currently stands at this:

Anti-Anime: Anime sucks.

Pro-Anime: Other things are worse.

Anti-Anime: Anime fans are losers.

Pro-Anime: Other kinds of fans are bigger losers.

At least, that what they keep telling me.

I ran up the doors
opened the stairs. Said my pyjamas Put on my prayers Turned off my bed Jumped into the light Just because you kissed me A sweet goodnight.

I like it. Did you write this?

My only caution is that you should be careful of overusing any technique, otherwise the reader is able to spot the "blue print" from which the poem is created, which can distract and demystify the reader. In this case, the poem is short enough that I feel this is not really an issue. However, if you wrote a string of poems like this, or a longer one, it might.

In defense of my possibly insulting appeared bias towards the Anti-Anime case, yes I am biased towards the Anti-anime case. I am also a completely obsessed anime fan (particularly of Evangelion). Why do think I'm still here?

If you are biased towards something, that means you have a tendency to agree with that position. Do you mean you are biased against the Anti-Anime case?

It would really help me pass English...

I feel that poetry is better when the meaning lies without, not within. Art for art's sake and all that. If you English teacher disagrees, send him/her to me. I will bury him/her. I have done it before.

Pro-Anime:

2) There are good animes out there - contradiction of a point in the original article

Good points, Isha, however don't forget that I wrote the article with the sole purpose of baiting people.

I am pretty sure however that if I had titled the article "Some anime' sucks, but not all" and said that "I don't like Akira but Ghost in the Shell is the best," the same kind of comments would've been posted.

Let me give you an example: I like model trains. I put tracks together, play with them, paint them, detail them and do a whole bunch of other things that to me satisfy a need for creativity.

None of my other friends, including Jason, care for trains. Does that mean I need to go on a rampage to defend trains and convert them? Nope. They all like things that I don't find myself attracted to. Of course we still manage to have rational conversations about each other's passions as it is also a way to understand and know one another.

In the world of model railroading those that are insecure exist also. We call them "rivet counters."

These folks can't live with something that isn't 100% identical to the prototype. They will get into long screaming rampages if you attempt at doing something that isn't happening in the real world. If one detail is out of place or the paint job doesn't match something precisely to the prototype, you can rest assured they will go out of their way to point it out in a "I can't believe you did that" type of tone.

Meanwhile their models will be beautiful and perfect (and even have the exact number of rivets). If you don't think their models are perfect, they will go into a defensive rant, because there are no other real accomplishments in their lives.

People like that ruin the hobby for those that are looking from the outside wanting in. Are all model railroaders like that? No. But the ones that aren't, will not be the ones that will tell you how wrong you did your very first model.

Anime' fandom is pretty much the same way. There are the good fans who will read this, shrug and plop in an episode of Evangelion.

And then there are those that just can't stop trying to defend it.

The problem lies within themselves if you really want to get Freudian on their ass. When you are a generally insecure person, you find something that you are safe in. Some people choose prototypical modeling as their secret garden. Others an extensive knowledge and collection of anime'.

When an anime' zealot arrives here and posts a message defending his or her little treasure, they aren't even arguing with any of us. They are arguing with the doubts we so easily planted in their insecure minds. They need--desperately--to re-assure themselves they are okay.

This is why Recreational Anime' Fan Baiting is so easy and fun.

2) Anime fans tend to have poor spelling; for which I have a theory (to be politically correct it only refers to those who are obsessed):

I think it is just a matter of not thinking first and replying later.

When we see something we do not like or upsets us, the first reaction is to pull out the guns and blow it away.

Perhaps we should examine what it is about ourselves that causes us to feel a certain way.

Sometimes we are the ones with the problem.

leandro

p.s.

I really liked the poem.

Thanks Jason, for answering my nosy questions. Well, I'm off to grab a friend and convince her/him that Little Mermaid actually exists.

And by the way, Light Guardian, good job. I particularly liked the line " And I await your biggest defense "If you just go away then you're not an obsessive fan" "

Once again, thanks Jason.

Sorry about that, I mean "Pro-anime supporter", not "Light Guardian". Please excuse my airheadedness, as it is very late at night and the end of a very long day for me.

Someone who has been paying attention to the message boards at CoN now has the opportunity to score a major point against my arguments.

Just thought I'd point it out to make things interesting.

I am also considering writing an article about arguing tips. What say you all?

My thanks go to Jason and Leandro for their feedback. You pointed out things that I had missed. The poem isn't mine, a friend of mine wrote it, but I thought it was really relevant. According to Lao Tze everything is merely a miniature version of everything else (check out Chapter 47, 52, 54, and 60 of the Tao Te Ching, http://www.tao.ca/thinking/texts/laotse.html ), so really, anything is relevant isn't it? Only some connections are more obscure than others. Which is slightly off the point, but it gives me ideas...

Isha will be back and armed with Taoist and Ninja philosophies. :-D

Commented directed to Jason: an article on arguing sounds cool.

I should probably put a bit more thought into my posts before I click send because I have a tendency to forget things.

I don't agree with the "art for the sake of art" point of view. That's my beef with the Romantic era (1810-1900), because the various artistic movements wanted to separate the arts from the sciences. And it happened! I'm a musician, it's so obvious the connections between the arts (i.e. fine arts, architecture, music, even literature) and the sciences. It's all physics, chemistry and psychology. Pythagoras saw that, and we're still using his concepts in mathematics and music, yet music is an "art form". Bleh. I say art for the sake of science. Even aleatory art forms are governed by the principles of physics, chemistry, psychology, and probably a whole lot of other stuff too.

Enough of my incoherent rantings.

On the repetition of techniques, the unfavourable affect on the reader/viewer/listener also depends on how well it's disguised. The English Virginalists of 1600-1750 (they were composers) successfully used the same melody over and over again in the same piece without making it boring. Repetition is the basis for all of the songs on the radio. In masses of prose and poetry it occurs (i.e. rhyming). Some abuse repetition, others turn it into "art". This isn't in defense of the poem, just a comment I thought you might be interested in.

On my bias, I contradicted myself didn't I? What I should have said is that even though I am a crazed anime fan, I find the Anti-Anime cause has more weight because it has been presented in a humourous, creative and coherent way by people with calm, collected thoughts. It hasn't changed my point of view on anime, but barracking for the underdog gets you nowhere.

What grade did you get for English? If you got an A do you reckon you could publish an article on how to pass English? At the rate I'm going I won't pass year 11.

I don't agree with the "art for the sake of art" point of view. That's my beef with the Romantic era (1810-1900),

I despise the Romantics, the over-rated, pretentious, stuck-up lot of self-important bastards. Victorians and Moderns kick ass.

I'm a musician, it's so obvious the connections between the arts (i.e. fine arts, architecture, music, even literature) and the sciences. It's all physics, chemistry and psychology.

Bleh. I say art for the sake of science.

You are talking more about technique and form. I'm talking more about purpose. Imagine a poem clarifying the third law of thermodynamics. The weakest poems are those with a "message" like "Ya know, racism is wrong!" (Yes, thank you, I have been enlightened). Hence, art for art's sake.

On the repetition of techniques, the unfavourable affect on the reader/viewer/listener also depends on how well it's disguised.

Yes, I agree. I said that you should be cautious of overusing technique, that's all.

What grade did you get for English? If you got an A do you reckon you could publish an article on how to pass English? At the rate I'm going I won't pass year 11.

I have been out of school for a very long time and do not remember my grades. My only advice is to read the books, and DO NOT read Cliff's Notes, Coles' Notes, or whatever. Some of them have amazingly inaccurate information.

Choose bait, set hook, cast line...

Gone already Pro-Anime Supporter? You looked like you were going to hang around longer than Aethos. Or have you learned?

And I await your biggest defense "If you just go away then you're not an obsessive fan"

Hasn't failed me yet.

Choose bait, set hook, cast line... wait for a nibble, then reel 'em in.

I see what you mean by art for the sake of art. I mis-interpreted you the first time. And I agree the second time. Burn all analytical essay in a Neo-pagan ritual honouring Papa Gede.

A little bit of trivia: Ever noticed that the personalities of anime characters reflect the characteristics determined by the numerology of their name? i.e.

Sakura (as in Sakura Kinamoto from Card Captor Sakura)

3 | |9 The number 1 represents inter-personal
___|___|___ skills, personally I think Sakura 2 | | is a very friendly, social butterfly ___|___|___ kind of person, no? 111| | | | The number 2 represents organisational skills and rationality, Sakura never really loses her head.

The number 3 represents the ability to have fun, which Sakura is definately not lacking.

The number 9 represents ideals, and considering she is a hero, we would expect her to do the right thing, right?

My diagram came out pretty dodgy, Sakura has three 1's, one 2, one 3 and one 9.

wud up marshal i think you are the best rapper in the world.
i also think u are a good father to haily.u did a real good job in raising her.she is very pretty. so keep doing what u do cause u good at it.well i got to go peace out marshal

p.s if u get the chance my phone #is 947-5922

michael

It would appear that Pro Anime Supporter, like Otacon and Aethos before him, has defeated me in this debate by ignoring me. It has been nearly two weeks since he responded to my last post, and further ignored a post directly baiting him.

I suspect PAS may have intended to get his licks in quickly and leave just as quickly from the very beginning, thus having his cake and eating it too. If so, a very cunning strategem PAS, and my hat would be off to you, if I were in the habit of wearing hats.

Congrats again, PAS.

Bring on the next competitor.

Jason

Ok, why does everyone in this forum think that people who like Anime have no lives?? So what you're trying to say is that if you like "American" cartoons, then you have a life. I totally agree with Otacon, Isha, Z, and everyone else who defends Anime, and not only Anime, but what they enjoy doing besides "living in real life" the same way people go to the movies to escape reality. It's a hobby for them, that's all, and that's what they like to do. Another thing that pisses me off is that what's wrong with people who are fanatics of Anime?? If they like Anime, LET THEM LIKE IT!! THAT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!! STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM NOT TO LIKE IT!! Are you afraid that anime will take over everything or something? If you're saying all this crap it's because you're all scared!! Everyone likes rap and tries to be like the rappers, tries to dress like them, tries to talk like them, at least here in NY, and I personally despise rap, but do I try to stop everyone from liking it?? NO!!! I let them live their lives because that's who they are. I bet you people wouldn't have a problem if the Japanese were obsessed with American cartoons. I know that's ok with all of you, now they have a life because they like American Cartoons, and American cartoons are "normal". Why doesn't anyone here bash rap, huh?? I bet it's because all of you think that if you are obsessed with rap, then you're "normal", but if it's Anime, then everyone's crazy. And not only that, all of you say that it's the fans that make Anime horrible, well, let me tell you something, so that means that rap is horrible, movies are horrible, junk food is horrible, being popular in school is horrible, and a number of other things that are very popular that everyone likes a lot is terrible then, because it's like you all say, "It's the fans that make it horrible". Do you all see my point? Or are you too closedminded to understand? And none of you here as far as I've read have said anything about why is it that a lot of people like Anime so much. There must be SOME reason why all these "retarded people with no lives" like you people say, like Anime so much. Maybe there's something they see, and you don't, and that's why you don't like it. You have nothing else to say because you don't connect with it. I don't see why people like rap so much, but I guess it's something that's there that they connect with. Another thing I disagree with is that some Anime fans seem to be kind of scared to disagree too much with the Anti-Anime people by saying, "Oh, Dragonball Z or Sailor Moon is what gives Anime a bad name". I personally love DragonBall Z ,Sailor Moon and Pokemon, and I also like InuYasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, Evangelion, and Rurouni Kenshin. It's just that everyone has their own tastes of the kind of Anime they watch. What if someone saw South Park, didn't like it, and from there on said that all American cartoons suck?? How would you feel? It's just that people who like South Park like that kind of humor, it doesn't mean that all American cartoons suck. I personally don't like South Park, but I do like The Simpsons. If you don't like Anime, that's your problem, the same way I hate rap, that's my problem. I grew up hearing rap, yet I hate it a lot, and I also grew up hearing Spanish music and I love Spanish music, and everyone else likes rap, but that's no reason to bash rap. Rap is popular because the people make it popular. I hate rap because I don't like how it sounds and I think it doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean rap, in general, sucks, just because everyone else likes it. Just let Anime be what it is, and stop trying to change everyone. Let people stop liking Anime on their own, because they got tired of it, or the trend is over or for whatever reason. I bet everyone's going to ignore me because they have nothing to say, and if they do, it'll be the same thing I read in the above posts over and over. No change. -_-. *SIGH*

Welcome to the jungle, Gokugirl. Before we begin, I'd like to show you an innovative feature of your keyboard known as the "ENTER" key. This amazing key can improve your readability and organize your thoughts better by creating separate paragraphs.

Like so. Know the ENTER key. Embrace it. Love it. Use it.

Ok, why does everyone in this forum think that people who like Anime have no lives??

You're in this forum. Do you think people who like anime have no lives?

Not everyone in this forum thinks people who like anime have no lives. Some of the people in this forum are anime fans who are convinced that they have lives and are not obsessed with anime. They're wrong of course; completely and utterly wrong, as evidenced by the fact that they seek out anti-anime articles and flame them.

So what you're trying to say is that if you like "American" cartoons, then you have a life.

If only NASA could make such leaps, we'd have colonized Pluto by now. By way of example, you said you don't like Rap music. Well, from that should I conclude that you absolutely, positively, LOVE Jazz music? One has conclusion does not flow from the other.

Another thing that pisses me off is that what's wrong with people who are fanatics of Anime??

The article explained this.

If they like Anime, LET THEM LIKE IT!! THAT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!! STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM NOT TO LIKE IT!! Are you afraid that anime will take over everything or something? If you're saying all this crap it's because you're all scared!!

I am so misunderstood in my time. I am not trying to convert anime fans away from anime. I am trying to banish the insecurity that prevents them from enjoying it fully. And annoying others with it.

Everyone likes rap and tries to be like the rappers,

Everyone? Are you sure?

Why doesn't anyone here bash rap, huh??

Why is it that challengers of this article don't understand why you don't see someone criticizing Rap (or Star Trek) in a forum attached to an anti-anime article? We also haven't bashed General William Hull, who fought in the War of 1812. And maybe we should--he was a terrible general who was utterly humiliated by Isaac Brock and his forces.

In any event, why would this make things better? Would it make it all right if we said "Anime sucks. Anime fans suck. Rap sucks too, and so do Rap fans"? Did you find that made things easier to accept?

I bet it's because all of you think that if you are obsessed with rap, then you're "normal",

Not really.

it's the fans that make Anime horrible, well, let me tell you something, so that means that rap is horrible, movies are horrible, junk food is horrible, being popular in school is horrible, and a number of other things that are very popular that everyone likes a lot is terrible then, because it's like you all say, "It's the fans that make it horrible". Do you all see my point?

Yes. And it's not valid. I once wrote an article in this zine in which I said that cannibalism was a better alternative to eating at Burger King. And yet I never had legions of fanatical Burger King fans writing pages of flames. I also wrote an extremely derisive review of the movie Spawn. Nobody wrote in calling for my head. Of all the articles on this board criticizing all manner of things, this one is by far the busiest. Of all the thing written here, it is the anime fans who are so insecure about that article that they just can't read it, think to themselves "Whatever," and go back to wherever they came from.

And by the way, now we've go someone comparing anime to junk food. See what I mean about insecurity? I don't go around making these comparisons. You, a self-professed anime fan, did.

And none of you here as far as I've read have said anything about why is it that a lot of people like Anime so much.

I have speculated on this before. But more to the point, the anti-anime faction don't care. Obviously there is something there you like. And you'll be sure to tell us about it OVER AND OVER again won't you? That's the problem.

I personally love DragonBall Z ,Sailor Moon and Pokemon, and I also like InuYasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, Evangelion, and Rurouni Kenshin.

I would like to make an addendum to my observations about classic anime fan behavior. They ALWAYS have to list a resume of shows they like.

I hate rap because I don't like how it sounds and I think it doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean rap, in general, sucks,

Would you like me to present you with a lengthy thesis on why it doesn't suck and explain how it is truly a deep form of art and everyone should just leave Rap fans alone? What if I were to jot down a big long list of rap artists you've never heard of?

I bet everyone's going to ignore me because they have nothing to say, and if they do, it'll be the same thing I read in the above posts over and over.

That sounds like baiting. Fun, isn't it?

I was gonna write a huge ass spiel about this, but Gokugirl826 said what I wanted to say. I agree with her totally. Not everyone likes everything, if we all liked the same damned things for the same damned reasons then this world would be the most boring and stupid piece of shit floating in space. Some people like anime, some don't...why is this such a big deal? I like anime. I am an otaku and sure, I'd like my friends to like anime, and sure I show them what I like...but ya know what? Unlike other people, if they say, "Hey, not my cup of tea..." I don't pester the poor folks until they wanna put a gun in their mouth. Friends naturally try to get their friends to like the things they like. This is not just otakus...this is everyone! Alright...with that said! Anime rocks! American cartoons rock! Everything rocks to someone, someplace at some point in time....the sooner we all realize this, the sooner stupid crap like this whole "Anime sucks" article can stop flooding the internet. LOL ^_^

Ok, why does everyone in this forum think that people who like Anime have no lives??

See title of comment list. Obviously, its not animefriendly here.

So what you're trying to say is that if you like "American" cartoons, then you have a life.

When Leandro writes "Disney Sucks", you will see that is in no way true.

I totally agree with Otacon, Isha, Z, and everyone else >who defends Anime,

Congrats. Ive never found a group I agree with. Ever look into facism?

and not only Anime, but what they enjoy doing besides "living in real life"

Its this that I dislike about anime. The characters are all so damn similar.

the same way people go to the movies to escape reality.

Leave work at the workplace leave anime on the tube. Live your life. If you need to escape from it then FLASHING RED LIGHT that means something needs to be changed about it.

It's a hobby for them, that's all, and that's what they like to do.

Which is fine. "Like" is much different than "deep obsession". Ever know a junkie? The differance between that person and an occasional pot smoker is an entire universe. I like some anime. Jason: go ahead, shoot!

Another thing that pisses me off is that what's wrong with people who are fanatics of Anime??

Fanaticism of any sort creates a being that cannot grow in a whole being sense because of their single minded obsession. In the face of this obvious self destruction the person creates networks of pseudojustifications that can reach religious proportions. The danger is that these logic patterns begin to seep out into those they have influence on and in effect they become a memetic (like genetics but applied to thought sets) cancer. Luckily the obsession w/ anime is ludicrious and therefore less threatening to specieal evolution than oh say "work" or "serving THE ONE TRUE GOD" or "porn" but its a thinner tendril of the same tumor.

LET THEM LIKE IT!! THAT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!!

True, for the casual fan, but the fanatical among them, like all fanatics, are mislead to the degree that they warp like a shut-in with 50 cats and a government check. I call it basic human kindness to try and steer them away from it. You and IMPROV kick bums together?

Are you afraid that anime will take over everything or something?

No. I am afraid that single minded, monotopical, soloagenda driven psycho sociopathic narcisistic unrealist poorly prioritizing idiots have already. Im just trying to help with damage control.

If you're saying all this crap it's because you're all scared!!

Yes. Truly. Mainly because I look around and see so few other are.

Everyone likes rap and tries to be like the rappers, tries >to dress like them, tries to talk like them, at least here in NY,

Like ants in a hill. Go figger. Try and act like someone you are not and you are an idiot. Try and act like your unique self and you will have a difficult time but your life and those lives of people you touch will be bettered in greater degrees by it.

but do I try to stop everyone from liking it?? NO!!!

You cant, just as I cant stop you.

1. it would be wrong to do so if you could and

2. you'd miss DBZ

HOWEVER what you can do is try and put forth what you think as clearly as possible and point out weakness where you see it and ALWAYS work on your own. Teach and be taught.

Why doesn't anyone here bash rap, huh??

When Leandro writes "Rap Sucks" they will.

I bet it's because all of you think that if you are obsessed with rap, then you're "normal",

Normal? Yeah, probably. Healthy or intelligent? Odds say "No"

but if it's Anime, then everyone's crazy.

No, everyone is just crazy.

rap is horrible,

90% of it.

movies are horrible,

For the # of truly genius stories written there are a surprising # of horrible movies made.

junk food is horrible,

Unless you like being fat and living about as long as it will take you body to decompose due to the chemicals stored in it.

being popular in school is horrible,

Pity the popular: they are ruled by the mob mentality of the herd they alpha above and grow to be weak because of it.

number of other things that are very popular that everyone likes a lot is terrible then,

Yes. The powers that be prefer you weak, wanting and stupid so that you are easily sold to and herded with little bloodshed.

"It's the fans that make it horrible".

Yup. Stop being easily sold to. Seek a better model than any thus far put forth. Dont be played, dont be a playah. Dont be the pac-man mouthed side kick. Dont be anything they can put into a tidy demographic. They want you simple and similar. So be complex and unique.

Do you all see my point?

Yeah, its obvious at a glance.

The funny thing is that the truest statement you have made were in attempt to use a sarcastic logic flow to show them as false. Thats funny to me. I dont know why but it is.

There must be SOME reason why all these "retarded people with no lives" like you people say, like Anime so much.

"Retarded" only in the strictest sense- their growth has been shortened and cut back like a bonsai.

Why do they like it? Ask them. Personally I used to watch a lot of anime because it was different than what I had been used to seeing in animated form. Different until it all became remarkably similar. Tentacle porn, the first time I saw it, in Legend of the Overfiend, made me shudder... then I noticed how often things just sprouted peni at random for the sake of it the same way an american movie will have the "romantic interest" come back to life after a kiss at the end. Or more clearly put: formula into cliche, into hack ad nauseum.

Maybe there's something they see, and you don't, and >that's why you don't like it.

I would hope so coz if they see exactly what I see in it and are still obsessed we may as well start launching nukes and letting the roaches have their day as dominant species.

You have nothing else to say because you don't connect with it. I don't see why people like rap so much,

Apparently.

[This next section is NOT TO INSPIRE DEBATE, I only want to show that I am not talking from a place of no experiance. I have no interest in quibbling over the thin divergences in plot, and hair height of cartoons and their characters.]

I personally love DragonBall Z,

5 minutes of "LAST TIME ON DBZ..." followed by part 1 of 5 for a single fight sequence ending with 5 minutes of "NEXT TIME ON DBZ..." Pepper in there Moodiness, stern fronting and goofiness in equal proportions and viola! Purgatory in a weekly format.

Sailor Moon

Writer: "Damnit. I just cant stretch this plot out and we're still 20 minutes away from a complete episode. Hmmm I wonder If I can make her 'moooooooooooooooon teeeeeeeeeee arrrrrrrrrrrrr aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa mmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaa jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee k. spiel run any longer... WAIT I know I'll have two of the other scouts do their spiel VIOLA 20 minutes filled!"

Producer: "But Tuxedo Moon saves the day with a rose, right"

Writer: "Uh Yeah, of course."

and Pokemon,

Syrup poured over a sugar coated toy that coo's.
A jello mold that moves while you drool.
Team Rocket?
Come on!
After you learn to speak this show starts turning into a cotton candy meditation.

and I also like InuYasha,

Never saw it.

Yu Yu Hakusho,

Watered down characters from a bucket full of other animes. Ninja scroll satisfies anything gratified by YUYU 1000x without having to watch it more than once.

Etc.

if someone saw South Park, didn't like it, and from there on said that all American cartoons suck??

They would be narrow minded, of course.

How would you feel?

Sorry for them.

If you don't like Anime, that's your problem, the same way I hate rap, that's my problem.

Apparently.

I grew up hearing rap, yet I hate it a lot,

So you're saying you dislike rap?

and I also grew up hearing Spanish music and I love >Spanish music, and everyone else likes rap,

NY must be pumping out the clones these days.

but that's no reason to bash rap. Rap is popular because the people make it popular.

Just like barabarism and hording while people starve! Go Humanity! Woo-Hoo!

but that doesn't mean rap, in general, sucks, just because everyone else likes it.

Not that I've done it but I bet a quick google search of "I think Rap Sucks" would change your attitude on that, at least the 'everyone else likes it' part.

Just let Anime be what it is,

For it is pretty obvious what it is.

and stop trying to change everyone.

Always spread what you think is true just never assume you are infallible. To stop trying to help change folk into something better is to hide your wisdoms and to hide your wisdoms is to have anything your life might have done inregard too making a better world die when you do.

Let people stop liking Anime on their own, because they got tired of it,

Obsession is what is truly loathsome, not the subject (allthough I gotta say Cool Devices Tokyo Private Police et al DO approach loathesome)

I bet everyone's going to ignore me because they have nothing to say,

Nope. I just had nothing to say to them.

*SIGH*

In defeat? In resignation?
That act, is what is straight out dumb.
You defeat yourself with it.
<3
REVSCRJ

You see?? same thing I keep reading over and over in all the forums. I was so right.

Welcome to the jungle, Gokugirl. Before we begin, I'd like to show you an innovative feature of your keyboard known as the "ENTER" key. This amazing key can improve your readability and organize your thoughts better by creating separate paragraphs.

Like so. Know the ENTER key. Embrace it. Love it. Use it.

Uh, like

t
h i s ?

OOOOOOOOooohhh, OK!! Thanks!! I'm so stupid!! I gotta stop watching so much Anime!! I'ts making me forget stuff!! I even forgot how to use the ENTER key!!

This has nothing to do with what we're talking about, but I

gotta look stupid somehow, right?? Look!! I used the ENTER

key!! now I have a life!!

I guess it's wrong that anime fans defend what they like because you want to say what you want to say about Anime, and don't want anyone to disagree with you because all you say, according to you, is fact. Those who spend time disagreeing with what you say, according to you, should just read it and move on with their lives, but it's ok for you to keep arguing, 'cause you're special. You use that psychology so anime fans would say,"oh, I'm going to prove to him I have a life" and then they stop arguing with you. I'm sure you would defend something you enjoy in your life and not just listen and go," ah, whatever". We're just stating our opinions, and you have a problem with it. So when you really think about it, who's really the one with no life around here?

And by the way, now we've go someone comparing anime to junk food. See what I mean about insecurity? I don't go around making these comparisons. You, a self-professed anime fan, did.

And, you just proved that you missed my point.

Would you like me to present you with a lengthy thesis on why it doesn't suck and explain how it is truly a deep form of art and everyone should just leave Rap fans alone? What if I were to jot down a big long list of rap artists you've never heard of?

Would you like me to present you with a lengthy thesis on why something you enjoy sucks and explain how it is truly a deep form of art and everyone should just leave the fans of what you like alone?

Its this that I dislike about anime. The characters are all so damn similar.

Oh yeah, you're right. People should like only certain "kinds" of anime. Disliking the similarity in anime is against the law and it's wrong. I gotta remember that.
I also notice a lot of similarities in American cartoons, but that's ok, 'cause it's American. No one notices that, of course. I guess it's 'cause they all look so original and different. Gotta take notes, teacher. When Leandro writes "Rap Sucks" they will.

yeah, whatever.

You cant, just as I cant stop you.

1. it would be wrong to do so if you could and

2. you'd miss DBZ

And you'd miss precious moments living your normal real life, 'cause you have a life, ya know.

5 minutes of "LAST TIME ON DBZ..." followed by part 1 of 5 for a single fight sequence ending with 5 minutes of "NEXT TIME ON DBZ..." Pepper in there Moodiness, stern fronting and goofiness in equal proportions and viola! Purgatory in a weekly format.

oh, yeah, no one should know what happened in the last episode and in the future episodes. Oh yeah, and the bad guy should be a piece of cake to beat. It's not right for the good guy to have a challenge against the bad guy.

Sailor Moon

Writer: "Damnit. I just cant stretch this plot out and we're still 20 minutes away from a complete episode. Hmmm I wonder If I can make her 'moooooooooooooooon teeeeeeeeeee arrrrrrrrrrrrr aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa mmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaa jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee k. spiel run any longer... WAIT I know I'll have two of the other scouts do their spiel VIOLA 20 minutes filled!"
Oh yeah, what's up with all those fancy beautiful backgrounds and effects that take forever? The powers should just be dull and plain with no cool effects. That takes away time from the show. Besides, who wants to see all that beautiful animation anyway? Might as well read the manga so it won't take up so much time.

Syrup poured over a sugar coated toy that coo's.
A jello mold that moves while you drool. Team Rocket? Come on! After you learn to speak this show starts turning into a cotton candy meditation.

Ok, no humorous bad guys. Check. That is so stupid. Team Rocket shouldn't be a fancy and funny team that like to say their motto. Instead, they should be dull and serious, or sarcastic-ish. The show would be a lot better like that. They should be more like Butch and Cassidy.

Yu Yu Hakusho,

Watered down characters from a bucket full of other animes. Ninja scroll satisfies anything gratified by YUYU 1000x without having to watch it more than once.

So let's all watch Ninja Scroll instead of Yu Yu Hakusho. Why don't they eliminate it because it's so "similar".

Always spread what you think is true just never assume you are infallible. To stop trying to help change folk into something better is to hide your wisdoms and to hide your wisdoms is to have anything your life might have done inregard too making a better world die when you do.

See, in this statement, I agree with you. If you don't like Anime cartoons for whatever reason, and want to state your opinions on why you think it sucks and makes the person realize things they never did and thought about it is ok with me. What I totally disagree with is that you're saying that it is a fact that Anime sucks. It is an opinion that Anime sucks, not a fact. If you don't like Anime because of its similarities, it's ok with me, the same way that I'm not too crazy about American cartoons because I think they have similarities too. Maybe you just don't like that type of similarity in Anime, and that's fine with me because I feel the same way.

So you're saying you dislike rap?

Uh,......DUH!!!!

In defeat? In resignation?
That act, is what is straight out dumb. You defeat yourself with it.

The same thing I read over and over in the other messages, just like I said at the end of my message. Guess you're too "smart" to miss that. I think that's what the sigh was trying to say, yeah.

I guess the only ones who don't have a life are Shiva and I. Shiva, let's stop liking Anime and enjoy real "life" like these people say, even though they don't say what having a life is, because to me, having a life is being alive enjoying what you like and being who you are, but if that's their definition of not having a life, then I guess I don't have a life, and I'm proud of it too!

Well, don't have any hobbies or interests and just be aware of what's going on in the world 24-7. Watch the news and get depressed at the stuff that's happening. Be aware of all the problems you have and will have in the future. Remember, you can't have any entertainment of any kind. Enjoy having a life.

Just for shits and giggles I came back to see if anyone flamed my post. They didn't, and I'm surprised...well maybe not really...maybe I wasn't flamed because I can see both sides. Anime is good, to those who like it...American cartoons are good to those who like them as well...

But why I write again, is to bring you all a secret from a Media Sales Representative...

Cartoons, American, Japanese, Korean, Australian...country of origin does not matter...are all nothing but huge ass commericals for the crappy merchandise that can be sold as a result of fan love.

A perfect example of this is the 80s He-Man (For those of you still in diapers, think of the He-Man you see on Cartoon Network now, and imagine it a hell of a lot crappier...yes, it IS possbible) Basically, all of these He-Man toys were made and sat in warehouses for months because the company believe that they could not sell the toys based on "Awe" alone. Thusly, they made this cartoon, and lo and behold, like a month later...toys stocked the shelves. Cartoon made, thusly creating a fanbase...toys were bought and lots of money was made.

Another example is this boom in Simpson's merchandising. The show is over a decade old, and quite honestly the last few seasons were rather, "Yawn"...but this season is rather funny...so BOOM, there's an obscene ammount of simpsons toys littering the stores. Don't believe me, just go to your local Target or Suncoast stores.

Now I am not going to just make fun of american cartoons, now time for some Japanese ones too (So I don't get flamed for being a biased Otaku)

Sailor Moon...I swear to god, there has to be some toilet paper with the moon princess's face on it. There's way too much cheezy stuff with her face on it. The DVD's alone, if one were to purchase all 200 episodes would cost around a thousand dollars.

Hello Kitty...this cute cat is also a sex toy? Yep...Hello Kitty has sold it's marketing soul to the devil (or Adam and Eve, I forget) and now has varriable sized vibrators now added to it's inventory.

DBZ...I'm not going to even get started on this one...

So, see, everyone...my point is. Why is everyone arguing about commercials? Personally, I don't really care about the new coke commericals, but did I write a too-long and rather lackluster article about them? Nope...cause they are just commercails.

So the next time any of you turn your tv on to watch the simpsons, or south park, or looney tunes, or sailor moon, or ruroni kensin, stop and think about the 22 minute ad you're about to take in.

Heh, I didn't even realized that I was included in your post above there. Ha ha...I felt the urge to post before I could finish. I feel special...I was mentioned!

Alright, I am done now...

You see?? same thing I keep reading over and over in all the forums. I was so right.

I'm pretty certain that my position on this whole matter is unique. But if that's not true, please direct me to a forum where someone is taking up a similar position and goal. If it's all over the forums as you say, this should be no problem.

If you're saying that my argument is repetitive, that is because it remains consistent. This is not a weakness. It demonstrates that I have thought out my opinion very carefully and that no-one has been able to move me from it. You can call that closed mindedness if you wish, but I believe in the Scientific Method. If a new fact surfaces to challenge the thesis, it must be investigated and the thesis possibly changed. Which, in my case, it has. I went from "all Anime fans are insecure" to finding exceptions to that rule--Aethos, Otacon, and Pro-Anime Supporter.

You could be the next one, Gokugirl. I have faith in you.

I gotta look stupid somehow, right?? Look!! I used the ENTER key!! now I have a life!!

You're the one who opted to go ENTER key free in your last post. Since you can use it but didn't, this makes you look lazy, not stupid. If you now find that you now have a life because you used the ENTER key, more power to you. Now!! If we could just get rid of excessive!! punctuation!! Right??

I guess it's wrong that anime fans defend what they like because you want to say what you want to say about Anime,

What have I said about anime? I've been talking almost exclusively about the anime fans.

Those who spend time disagreeing with what you say, according to you, should just read it and move on with their lives, but it's ok for you to keep arguing, 'cause you're special.

If no anime fans posted arguments in this space, it would be difficult for me to continue arguing with them, wouldn't it?

You use that psychology so anime fans would say,"oh, I'm going to prove to him I have a life" and then they stop arguing with you.

Ah, so you understand the rules of the game, good. So...why are you still here?

But let's be clear, I am not special. My continued presence and love for the Devil's Advocate position demonstrates a deep immaturity and flaws in my character. I have acknowledged that in the past, most recently in the Aethos exchange. But I believe I am bravely making this sacrifice so that anime fans can grow. You should all thank me.

I'm sure you would defend something you enjoy in your life and not just listen and go," ah, whatever".

Actually, yes I would. I said this to Aethos as well. There are things I like that are much less cooler than anime in the perception of the general public. When these things are insulted, I say nothing, because I know there is no point. Those who like what I like don't need convincing, those that don't will not be convinced. Morever, I don't actually care what they think. I find interest in my subjects, that's good enough for me.

when you really think about it, who's really the one with no life around here?

Fine. I'm the one who has no life. And you're here arguing with me. What does that make you?

And, you just proved that you missed my point.

No, I got your point. You say that if anime is judged by the behavior of its fans, other things should be held accountable by the behavior of its fans, including rap, and strangely enough, fast food and high school popularity (incidentally, how does one be a "fan" of high school popularity? Stand at the sidelines with a scorecord and watch the cliques?). I maintain your comparison is invalid because amongst other things, I have never seen anyone cosplay Ronald McDonald and Grimace.

And this point has actually come up a few times now, and I have to confess its very existence baffles me. When someone accuses anime of sucking, and anime fans of sucking, their response seems to be "Yeah, well rap/Star Trek/junk food/whatever and their fans suck just as bad or worse." In what universe is this a good defense? Some of the most insulting things I've heard said about anime have come from anime fans themselves in this very forum. Really, I pale in comparison to the derision spewed by these people. How do you account for this?

Would you like me to present you with a lengthy thesis on why something you enjoy sucks and explain how it is truly a deep form of art and everyone should just leave the fans of what you like alone?

You can explain why something I enjoy sucks AND is a truly deep form of art? I must admit that would be a neat trick. Ok, explain why Recreational Anime Fan Baiting sucks AND is a truly deep form of art, and why everyone should just leave the fans of Recreational Anime Fan Baiting alone.

I notice what follows is a lengthy defense, point by point, of various anime shows attacked by REVSCRJ. You just had to take the bait, didn't you?

I guess the only ones who don't have a life are Shiva and I. Shiva, let's stop liking Anime and enjoy real "life" like these people say, even though they don't say what having a life is,

"You have no life" is the single most repetitive insult on the Internet and thrown about so haphazardly I would never resort to using it. But it's clear you do not understand my thesis, so I will state it again.

Anime fans who retaliate in this forum are insecure. They feel threatened by any kind of anti-anime sentiment. I believe there has been so much backlash against them that they cannot truly enjoy their interest. I think there is an underlying feeling of shame because of anime's perceived geekdom. That is why they lash out against all anti-anime sentiment, from a stupid "anime sux lol" to a well-reasoned argument on why "Pokemon exists as more of a sales tool than a show." They need to convince as many people as possible, including themselves.

The ideal state for an anime fan is not to stop watching anime. It is to be utterly comfortable with the opinions of others, even the extremely derisive ones. Occasionally, forums where I persue my interests have trolls that post the typical "this is so gay" comments. I always sigh when my fellow hobbyists flame back. It's a waste of time, and they are just giving the troll the attention he/she craves. Me, I just go on my merry way.

just be aware of what's going on in the world 24-7. Watch the news and get depressed at the stuff that's happening. Be aware of all the problems you have and will have in the future.

Actually, most of this is very good advice, yet you say it sarcastically.

Remember, you can't have any entertainment of any kind.

Kindly indicate to me where I, or anyone else for that matter, said that in this forum.

You gotta point there, Shiva. True true. I do think the DBZ actions figures suck, and the Sailor Moon toys. They should just stick to doing other kinds of merchandise, or make the toys look better or something. ^_^

I am possibly one of the only otaku's out there who has yet to have her responses flamed. Why? Because mine carry facts and are true for the most part. Can't bash the truth. LOL.

With that lil' celebration done, I am acutally going to direct my next few ramblings to everyone's friend Jason (No this is not going to be mean, harsh or rude. You've done neither to me really aside from one jab, and I shall return such things.) Now, I know that you like taking people word's and replying to them, fine, it's good that you have some sort of basis to your responses. Fine. One did catch my eye though...it was your response about Gokugirl's line about "Not having a life" or whatever...

You spoke out how anime fans are insecure, how they cannot enjoy their hobbies and how they fear geekdom. Well personally, I am a geek. I am not insecure about my hobbies, nor am I here because I have this "Divine quest" Believe it or not, I was acutally looking for a tutorial on anime expressions and when I put "Angry anime expression" in yahoo seach, this was one of the top pages to come up. Funny...all this anti-anime attitude is being retaliated because search engines place it alongside other pro-anime articles. Very funny, I think.

As for those who are insecure about their hobbies, have you not stopped to think that it might because of people with just your such attitude that pushes them and their tvs into the closet? While I do not really know you, if I would have gone to school with you, you truly seem like the type of person who would have made the entire cafeteria laught at me for not wearing the coolest socks. (OF course I cannot guarantee that, this is just my observation from reading your words) This now applies to people who like anime. It's not your cup of tea and rather than let it be, you berate and make those who enjoy it, fell like less of people. Perhaps if you and the other "anime bullies" took my "some like things, some don't" attitude...this whole anime fan fear would not exist.

Naturally, I do not support anime fans who when attacked, can't come up with something better than "This is gay." That is rather stupid and lazy. How is something so short and rather worthless supposed to show that you are not the stereotypical geek that people like you have drawn us out to be. It doesn't. LOL.

And through all of this silly little forum, even though, I saw your cheap jab and the inabilty to understand that a person with more marketing degrees than hairs on her head might know what cartoons really are about, I have remained rather pleasant.

People write things that they know are going to spark a negative response from a large group of individuals and when that response happens, they publicly pick each responder up, one by one and impaile them for all to see, in hopes of prooving "Ha ha, they are geeks, we are right."

It's a sad, sad world, when people have to get satisfaction and get off on doing such things to people they don't even know. Like I said above, I ended up here because I was SEARCHING FOR ANIME! Not because I am bored fan who seeks out flamers and tries to "convert" them. After reading the posts, I find all this childish behavior and intolerance to be rather amusing. Jason, the creator of the article and all of the "haters" who have replied in hopes making people feel like less of people for existing...you are no better than people like Saddam Hussein, and you all...

Make me laugh. ^_^

Ok, you know what? I'm going to end this once and for all, even though you're still going to say you're right and I'm wrong, but whatever.

I think that all extremes are bad, but it also depends what type of extremes it is. My little cousin is obsessed with YuGiOh and he actually thinks he has powers. This kind of extreme is bad because he also has to be aware of the real world and what's going on around him. Me, as a big anime fan, spend my freetime watching anime or playing video games, but I also live in the real world.

What I'm saying is, don't bash anime because people get obsessed with it easily, that's not the anime's problem, it's the people who watch it. That's why I compare it to rap, yet you're still probably not going to know what I mean. I'm not talking about rap and anime literally, I'm saying that just because something is extremely popular to the point that everyone forgets who they are and change for the bad doesn't mean that that particular thing sucks. I know I didn't use good examples, but you're smart, you know what I mean.

And also, you said that you would go "ah, whatever" to someone that insulted what you liked. So tell me,do you think that what they say to you is fact, or opinion?

You gotta remember something, you saying that anime sucks is an opinion, not a fact. If you don't like anime for whatever reason that it has, then you have a different kind of taste for things. Don't try to convince people that they should like this or that because of this. People like whatever it is they like for that something that it has that you don't see. Everything has its negative and positive points.

And I'm sure that you have hobbies and interests of your own when you have time to yourself and aren't just a workaholic or anything like that. Believe it or not, everyone has their own little world that they feel comfortable in at the moment, even if you don't want to admit it, you too, at least for a split second, like when people hear music or watch a movie or any activity that they do. Everyone has a main activity or hobby that they like to do in their life more than other things that they have in mind.

Oh, and that insecurity thing? I'm not insecure about anything because when I started watching anime, you could say it wasn't popular at all, for nothing. I liked it because I liked it, not because everyone else did. If everyone, all of a sudden, started hating anime for whatever reason, I'm still gonna like it a lot on my own. Pokemon is a good example because the pokemon craze is over. Since it's not popular anymore, no one likes it that much. I like Pokemon for whatever reason I like it, not because that's what's "in" at the moment. When I disagree with you on why I think anime doesn't suck, I'm just stating my opinion, that's all. If you say that YOU think anime sucks because of this or that, then that sounds better than saying anime just sucks. It's like Shiva says, you're naturally going to say why something you like doesn't suck to your friends and stuff like that.

'Nuff said.

If perhaps one had actually read my comment about cartoon's as marketing tools, then instead of using it as "oh man, she's a geek, look...she's trying to justify something"...one might have seen that I was blatanly admitting that much of the common anime out there is in fact crap...and in a sense AGREEING WITH YOU...

But instead...some people who apparently don't read English took it as a "Crazy fan with a fact sheet". Gokugirl is obviously a fan, but you've even got her admitting that some of it is crap. LOL.

I am not trying to convince anyone to like anime. I have never said that in any of my posts...in the words of another poster, "Kindly indicate to me where I, or anyone else for that matter, said that in this forum." I have only written to enlighten some people as to why anime fans act the ways they do, and perhaps give some light as to why so many of these anime haters claim that it is taking over the world. Cartoons are commercials and if you don't know that by now, then you need to go back to second grade. The cartoons that are making toy companies the most money right now are the import cartoons. It's basic math...if american breed only makes 100 million, and an anime dub could make you 200 million....you as an executive with a big house and fast cars...which would you choose? LOL

I'll be back...if given a reason to. Hopefully, not. ^_^

WOW, SHIVA!! It's like they say in Spanish, TE BOTASTE!!! (meaning you really really outdid yourself)I couldn't have said that better myself. I'm speechless. I guess I have nothing else to say.

you know what? I really don't feel insecure at all. ^_^

In fact, I feel pretty secure as to why anime is the bombs!

Everyone's different ya know!! ^_^

We all see things differently! Yup Yup!!

Jason made me feel more secure than ever!
Thanks man!

I just have to post this...and my reply to it, hope it doesn't eat your space ^_^

Subj: there is a difference between ANIME and cartoons, you retarded little girl.
Date: 3/27/2003 4:31:57 AM Eastern Standard Time From: bite_me_chump@hotmail.com To: KittD82@aol.com

In your ridiculous little asinine response to the equally asinine and ridiculous article on CoN 416, you issued the following, intelligence-bereft lines, and I quote: 1) "---My reply...don't make stupid comments like this...it takes NO brain power to watch or think about Japanime even if the story is quote deep un quote.", and 2) What is the point of calling Pokemon a Cartoon and Cowboy Bebop an Anime...what side of the brain do you think
with?::puts on her Pro Disney pin::"

Sorry, forgive me, but just what the hell were those ridiculous jumbles of words even supposed to mean?!? For the life of me, I just can't understand what you're trying to say. Sorry, Dumbo(oh my, a reference to a dumb Disney character, which fits you to a tee, mwah-ha-ha!), there IS a difference between what is known as ANIME, and what are known as mere cartoons. There's the most obvious difference between American and Japanese animated programming, that being art style. I mean, how can anyone with even half a functioning brain(obviously NOT a reference to yourself, since you apparently have no brain to speak of) confuse programs featuring misshapen, upright-standing, bipedal-walking animals, to a show featuring actual, realistic-looking HUMAN characters? How can anyone confuse a show where there is NO PLOT TO SPEAK OF, with shows that feature more mature-oriented themes in their storylines, such as the nature of human existence and
humanity, the end of the world, love, loss, etc?? I mean hell, ALL american crap is aimed at children, and guess what, even the Yanks make shows that are based around merchandising. If you think I'm lying, then what do you call GI JOE? TMNT? He Man? I could go on and on, because I've seen tons of shows as a youth, on Sat. Morn., that were usually centered around making a toymaker tons of green. So WAKE UP, idiot, it's not just Japan that's at it. And yes, even the kiddy Japanese-made shows like Pokemon, Beyblade, Digimon, Hamtaro, etc, deserve to be known as anime, because those shows have a positive message: that of teamwork, responsibilty, etc. It's easily seen when Ash confers with his Pokemon before every battle, when the Ham Ham try to help their owners, etc, etc. And that is something I've personally, never seen in most tired Disney shorts. All I've seen personally, is well, just plain retarded, infantile hijinks. Yeah, Disney rules, dude!!!!.....NOT!!!!! Can you even think logically? Probably not, in my oh-so-humble estimation. And oh yeah, what the hell is so good about Disney crapola anyway? Yes, I used to watch Disney programs and movies too, back when they were actually WATCHABLE. I loved Fantasia, 101 Dalmations, Pinocchio, Song of The SOuth, etc, etc, up until Pochahontas came out, with it's many rewritten plot points. Then well, Disney just plain SUCKED. They turned one of the best Victor Hugo books i've ever read, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, into a total travesty of a movie. The book was about love and tragedy. The damn movie was just some stupid musical you took your rugrats to!

And you say it doesn't take any intelligence to watch anime? Riight...I'd say that about any and all idiot Spongebob and SP fans. If you'd actually seen a REAL anime, not the crap on CN, btw, you'd realize just how deep a storyline can be. If you doubt me, watch Metropolis, or Cowboy Bebop, or RK, or Noir, or.....well, there's tons of well-written shows out there, but a deluded, smug idiot like yourself won't look. And so what? All I'm saying, my little buttercup, is that watching and comprehending a good
anime, is akin to reading a good book. Too bad you seem to know squat about either of those.

And what is so wrong, btw, if a fan defends what he likes? HELLO, stupid! It's part of being HUMAN, maybe you've heard of it? Though I'd guess not.
Besides, if I dissed your precious, not-so-funny-anymore Disney craptoons, or your lame ass N'Sync cd collection(because that's what retarded little teen strumpets like yourself listen to), don't tell me you wouldn't get defensive either. Funny thing is that, you, being no more than some retarded, smug, arrogant little 9th grader, seem to think you know everything, when in fact, you most certainly DO NOT. Do yourself a favor, and at least get a damn diploma(or in YOUR particular case, a GED) before preaching your lame little insignificant beliefs to the world at large. After all, you don't want everyone else to know what a shallow, retarded little tramp you really are, right?

In closing, don't judge something you don't understand. And don't judge people you don't understand, either. GET A BRAIN.....

In your ridiculous little asinine response to the equally asinine and ridiculous article on CoN 416, you issued the following, intelligence-bereft lines

At first I was amused that Shiva and Gokugirl (who I think are the same user, but I have yet to check the weblogs) felt so secure about their love for animation that they posted that many long assed comments--that's the way it works, no? The more secure you are about a topic, the more you need to tell the world.

Just kidding. Anime` still sucks.

I am possibly one of the only otaku's out there who has yet to have her responses flamed.

Your previous contribution to this was little more than "Gokugirl826 said what I wanted to say. I agree with her totally." Since I've already addressed her posts, it seemed redundant to go after yours. Also, I notice you sign your posts with the same tag as Gokugirl (^_^), which lends credence to Leandro's theory that you're the same person.

You also said that "mine carry facts and are true for the most part." What parts of your posts are false?

I am not insecure about my hobbies, nor am I here because I have this "Divine quest"

However you got here, you still took time to write a lengthy post in order to justify yourself to me. That's how secure you are.

have you not stopped to think that it might because of people with just your such attitude that pushes them and their tvs into the closet?

I don't think you have correctly identified what my attitude is.

Perhaps if you and the other "anime bullies" took my "some like things, some don't" attitude...this whole anime fan fear would not exist.

It's the anime fans who need to adapt the "some like things, some don't" attitude. You came here. We did not attack an anime forum.

And in any case, why do you care in the least about what "anime bullies" have to say? Until the day they burn crosses on your lawn, what do you have to fear from them? Like your high school question, would I have mocked you for wearing the wrong socks? If you've left high school, you'll probably discover that you don't care what a single person you ever met in high school thought about anything.

I saw your cheap jab and the inabilty to understand that a person with more marketing degrees than hairs on her head might know what cartoons really are about

What jab? And who appointed this person Lord High Determiner of What Cartoons Really Are About?

People write things that they know are going to spark a negative response from a large group of individuals and when that response happens, they publicly pick each responder up, one by one and impaile them for all to see, in hopes of prooving "Ha ha, they are geeks, we are right."

Yep. And those individuals keep taking the bait.

It's a sad, sad world, when people have to get satisfaction and get off on doing such things to people they don't even know. Like I said above, I ended up here because I was SEARCHING FOR ANIME! Not because I am bored fan who seeks out flamers and tries to "convert" them.

You know, I guess you're right. What I am doing is really quite childish and unfair to anime fans and I should stop--

--waaaaait a minute. You weren't trying to convert me there, where you? Damn your silk tongue. It almost worked.

Jason, the creator of the article

I did not write the article.

who have replied in hopes making people feel like less of people for existing...you are no better than people like Saddam Hussein, and you all...Make me laugh. ^_^

Well, Gokugirl/Shiva, with that comparison, I am glad to see you're keeping your perspective in all this.

Jason made me feel more secure than ever!

Excellent. This was my goal. Another satisfied customer. I should do infomericals and get testimonials from Otacon and Aethos.

Thanks man!

You're quite welcome.

Hey, Jason/Leandro, how do check if me and Shiva are the same person? It must be some kinda coincidence all that stuff, but what makes you think that we're the same person?

Hey, I was just reading the old posts up above by Aethos, and let me tell you, he's the MAN!! I wish I knew his e-mail address.... Oh, I forgot, I'm probably Aethos too, 'cause my opinions are EXACTLY the same as his.

Author's Note: I'm posting it here because I have no idea where else I would post

an anti-anime fic on the web. Excuse the formatting

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Strike

An Anti-Anime Fanfic

by Robert

(note: I have to type this whole thing in all over again but what can you do eh?)

Robert was in the EVA headquarters in Tokyo, Japan to stop a covert group of

robot pilots from detonating a nuclear device over the coast of California,

according to CIA intelligence. If the situation got too extreme, he was

instructed to use deadly force, detonate the complex and get the heck outta

there as soon as possible.

Robert snuck around the corner and saw a tall blonde with glasses and a lab suit

talking to a girl with bluish-black hair and a young man with brown hair whose

name was "Shinji", as he got from their convo.

He moved over across a row of computer desks and hid behind a drawer file as a

girl with long black hair walked by. She was in a sort of body suit that was

apparently used for flying in the robots. Robert identified her as "Misato".

She then headed her way toward a mid-size hangar door. Robert hurried up and

planted explosives on one of the computers set for two minutes. He figured the

explosion would either postpone or cancel the planned liftoff or hasten it in

which case he'd have to call the Navy to fire their cruise missiles on the target

immediately and in which case he'd have to bust out of there without delay-

-he heard something in Japanese-

Robert pulled out his deuce-deuce and shot everybody standing. Two guards went

down, and he got on his phone immediately to instantly tell the Navy to nuke the

place. The blue-haired girl jumped at him-

-the explosion knocked him back into a set of file drawers, bruising his shoulder-

-Shinji programmed some instructions into a computer panel, producing a loud

noise-

Robert shot him, and as soon as he went down his radio went: "We have instructions

that a nuclear weapon has been launched from your location. Disarm it immediately.

Out." The radio clicked and Robert shot the computer panel and bailed.

Thirty seconds later the complex exploded in a mess of glass and purple hair. Robert

fell into the water where his speedboat was and sped the fuck away. Mission

accomplished.

He heard splats of water behind him. "What the heck?" He turned around to see

one of the robots. He shot at it with his deuce-deuce but it resisted; it yelled

something in Japanese and shot a row of fire at him. It missed.

RObert radioed the Navy again. "Get some copters out here to kill this fuckin robot

on my tail!" He gave his coordinates and continued riding. RObert immediately got into

a life jacket just in case this thing was suicidal. He turned his head and saw the thing

advancing toward him. He turned wildly- a missile coming out of nowhere destroyed the

robot completely-

Robert looked up and saw an F/A-18 Super Hornet flying above. "GO NAVY!" he shouted.

Two weeks later, Japan surrendered and an American general was put in charge of the

country. Robert was put in charge of rooting out rogue regimes within the country and

groups such as the "Bakuretsu Hunters", the "Sailor Scouts" and the "Saber Marionettes"

were all captured and tried by military courts in the region. Eventually the American

military reached their goals and the country was returned, again, to the people of Japan

with the promise of allowing no more of those loony-eyed misfits to attack our shores

again. Fuck you Japan.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The formatting stunk. If you want a .txt copy then email me at rdd_22@yahoo.com

Your writing style and Shiva's are similar. You also use the same emoticon (^_^). However, I don't believe you're the same person. You and a friend are probably at the same computer, urging each other on, which would account for the agreement and similar styles. Leandro is checking the weblogs in search of further evidence.

You are not Aethos. I can tell by your writing styles. Aethos, though his posts started out very rough, always knew where the ENTER key was and usually allowed one exclamation point or question mark to do the job. (I notice you've cut down too, thank you very much.)

You should also be able to tell me apart from Leo, as our styles are also different.

Or am I bluffing? Perhaps I really do have multiple personalities. Or, maybe I am a diabolically good actor. What if I am also one of the people I have fought with? Wouldn't that be a corker?

So you agree totally with Aethos? Do you think the anime fan community is on ground that is equal and unequal? What's your definition of brainwashing?

Damnit!!
Offline for a couple of days living a life and missed all this!

HELLS BELLES
Im gonna get me some beer/sake and watch some football/anime and see if I can get something sold to me!

<3
REVSCRJ

As for why I ended up here...search engine looking for anime. Apparently saying it like a half dozen times is not enough. I blatanly admitted that I accidentally ended up here and curiosity sent me reading. Wow, I agreed with you guys that I stayed and wrote and didn't move on...Yet I am soooo bad. *shakes her head in discust*

And before that, in my last post before the weekend, I admitted that in many ways, I was agreeing with you. Yet that is not good enough. So, if I don't agree with you, I am oh so very wrong, and when I do, I am still wrong. Riiiiiggggghhhhtttttt...perhaps before replying, one might want to actually decide what side of the conversation is actually right and wrong, so when perhaps I might see the "light" and "error of my ways" and admit it, that it might be taken as something other than a threat. Since the title of this place was called "Anime sucks" I had asumed that if perhaps I thought about it and admitted as an anime fan that yeah, a good heap of it does suck...then maybe I would not be the subject of such attacks...but nope. I was wrong.

Your attitude. I can read. Your words speak your attitude enough. Less you are this great two-faced actor that you speak about, which I cannot decided either way, and I have no proof as to who you are, nor desire it. You speak about how you wish that anime fans did not have this whole thing to proove and how they are insecure, and how they shouldn't have to be that way. Yet two lines later, you give them YET another reason to feel that way and leave an opening for them, knowing blatantly that they will take the bait. That would be same as me saying at the bottom of this post "So what do ya think about that?" Getting a response and going ape shit. LOL

What cartoons are really about? I think that because I am a grown-upwith a line of degrees and a real job...and not some childish 9th grader who has nothing better to do during study hall...makes me a little bit more certifiable than let's say...you, the children of the post.

I never said Jason was the creator of the article. A comma can be used to seperate things that are meant to addressed at the same time for the same purpose. Both Jason AND the creator. Sorry, apparently you've never read Strunk and White. Shame.

As for me being Gokugirl. I am not. Check the logs, find out my IP and find out hers. You'd obviously see that they are not the same and that they are probably comming from different parts of the country. (Maybe, I have no idea where Gokugirl is from at all, because I am not her, never met her, don't know anything about her, and lastly, I am not her.)

When you all do check the logs and see that we are not the same person, you are going to feel rather stupid...but chances are because the people who made this sub-par website are so insecure about being wrong, that you will probably lie and say "Oh yes, their IP's matched" and refuse to admit that maybe you just might have made a really off accusation. I am not expecting you to be mature, because it's obvious...you are still children, who enjoy scrambled porn and a tube sock, perhaps because you can't purchase porn yet.

The infamous ^_^ emoticon. Guys, that is the Japanese emoticon for "SMILE". About 13 of my friends use the same damned emoticon. So that must mean that they are all me as well. And wholey shit, most of Japan who goes on the internet and wishes to say "SMILE" via emoticon must be me as well. That's some DEEP shit. Wow, I never realized that I was like 2 billion people.

I am still very amazed at everyone's belligerance and hate towards people they don't even know. I have YET to try and convince anyone to even like anime, nor say people who hate it are wrong...yet I am still the bad guy. I have only written what I see, and that's a lot of people who take the time to write out these huge replies to posts they didn't even read. I write long because I respond to what I see, not because I write about what I thought I saw or what I believed to see.

Jason, I am not the typical anime fan, don't treat me like I am some psychotic nut who sleeps with a stuffed Pokemon and wears Yu-Ghi-Oh underwear. You claimed that EVERY anime fan comes complete with a resume of shows. Where's mine? Huh? I don't spout off what I've seen, because it don't matter to people who don't like it. Me saying "Oh I've seen this..." isn't gonna make anyone like anime. It just makes you look like you're more important that you are. LOL

With that said, bring up the logs, swallow your pride and accept that there is more than one anime fan out there in this world, just like there is more than one person who dislikes anime. Gee...isn't that a peculiar concept?

Jeesh, I just figured out why the writer of the article and all the other people at capnasty.org hate anime. This is a Candian electronic magazine from Toronto, Ontario to be specific. No wonder you all hate anime. I've seen the schedule for YTV and jesus christ, if I was subjected to Sailor Moon four times I day, I'd want to shoot myself. Now, I honestly can feel for the poor author, having to grow up with that sort of tv viewing schedule. My kudos to you for being so well-adjusted after being forced into THAT.

So this is to say...these guys are RIGHT (I wish I could make that bigger) for hating anime. They have not had the chance to see anything better because they live in censorland and we should stop going after them because of it. They can't help where they live and what they've been forced to watch. The canadian remakes are THE worst pieces of crap ever to hit the airwaves. Obviously after seeing those remakes, they are not going to want to go out of their way to learn more nor tolerate those who do like it.

Sorry guys, I didn't know. I take back anything bad I might have said that was dark hearted...aside from the whole, I'm not everyone who uses the ^_^ emoticon part.

AOL-DSOUL SHIVA:

>So, if I don't agree with you, >I am oh so very wrong, >and when I do, I am still wrong.

"I dont practice what I preach as I am not the kind of person I am preaching to."-CotSG

>Riiiiiggggghhhhtttttt...

I picture here a "Dr.Evil" 'riiight'. Anyone else?

>I might see the "light"...that it might be taken as something other than a threat.

I just checked the IP log YOU ARE LEANDRO YOU BASTARD!

>I had asumed that if perhaps I thought about it and admitted as an anime fan that yeah, a good heap of it does suck...

-which it does, but you already said this WHEN YOU WROTE THE ARTICLE!

>Your attitude. I can read.

Strike a pose!
DANCE DANCE DANCE

>Yet two lines later, you give them YET another reason to feel that way

Negative behavioral therapy, Leandro... we've had lengthy email exchanges about this- are you baiting me?

>LOL
-ing tongue

>I think that because I am a grown-upwith a line of degrees and a real job...and not some childish 9th grader who has nothing better to do during study hall...

OR A SECURITY GUARD GOING MAD ON SHIFT

>makes me a little bit more certifiable than let's say...you, the children of the post.

AHA! Obviously a Canadian wouldnt realize that 'certifiable' is slang for 'ready for the nut-house'!

>I never said Jason was the creator of the article.

tap...tap...tap...

>apparently you've never read Strunk and White

Why is it that etimological scholars always have such idiotic names when they pair up? Funk and Wagnails? Strunk and White? Gun makers: they have good names.

>find out my IP and find out hers.

I didnt check G-grrrrl's IP, just yours- despite the clever spoofing I tracked it back your work Leo- put away the socks, stop scrambling. Go secure something. Youre gonna make jason pop a vein.

>You'd obviously see that they are not the same and that >they are probably comming from different parts of the >country.

Oh clever try and sound American by thinking there is only one country on the internet- nice, but its not gonna work man.

>you will probably lie and say "Oh yes, their IP's matched"

Honestly I didnt, and WONT check.
Fuck this 3 faced janus-facade! So leo- you call yourself shiva for the many hands you need to watch anime tentacle porn, type hate anime articles, type love anime articles, 'scramble' and guard things similtaneously?

<3
REVSCRJ

and refuse to admit that maybe you just might have made a really off accusation. I am not expecting you to be mature, because it's obvious...you are still children, who enjoy scrambled porn and a tube sock, perhaps because you can't purchase porn yet.

The infamous ^_^ emoticon. Guys, that is the Japanese emoticon for "SMILE". About 13 of my friends use the same damned emoticon. So that must mean that they are all me as well. And wholey shit, most of Japan who goes on the internet and wishes to say "SMILE" via emoticon must be me as well. That's some DEEP shit. Wow, I never realized that I was like 2 billion people.

I am still very amazed at everyone's belligerance and hate towards people they don't even know. I have YET to try and convince anyone to even like anime, nor say people who hate it are wrong...yet I am still the bad guy. I have only written what I see, and that's a lot of people who take the time to write out these huge replies to posts they didn't even read. I write long because I respond to what I see, not because I write about what I thought I saw or what I believed to see.

Jason, I am not the typical anime fan, don't treat me like I am some psychotic nut who sleeps with a stuffed Pokemon and wears Yu-Ghi-Oh underwear. You claimed that EVERY anime fan comes complete with a resume of shows. Where's mine? Huh? I don't spout off what I've seen, because it don't matter to people who don't like it. Me saying "Oh I've seen this..." isn't gonna make anyone like anime. It just makes you look like you're more important that you are. LOL

With that said, bring up the logs, swallow your pride and accept that there is more than one anime fan out there in this world, just like there is more than one person who dislikes anime. Gee...isn't that a peculiar concept?

hee hee hee!^_^! that's funny. I sleep with a stuffed Pikachu. See, Jason? We're not the same person.

And as for that fic, was that CORNY or what? well, Rob, try harder next time. If you need help, I'll add to it or something. And that F*** Japan crap was pretty disrespectful, don't you think?

It looks "too" coincidental, Leo, when you switch characters that quickly.
<3 REVSCRJ

wait a minute, wait a minute....... Shiva and Leandro are the SAME PERSON??? or am I confused?? 'Cause if they are, THAT'S COOL!!! ^_^

Pretty clever.....

I guess it's like Dr. Evil says, "we're not so different, you and I......"

Damned, not only am I gokugirl, 13 of my friends, 2 billion japanese...I am also Leo now.

Wholey shit that's funny.

Btw...I am not Leo. Leo is the owner and administrator of capnasty.org. I am not. I don't even live in Canada! The reason I sound American, is well, cause I am. LOL.

I am done being so serious. This is funny reading everyone thinking everyone else is everyone else and not a damned person wants to check the logs and see who is right and who is wrong. If anyone thinks that I am a canadian, it is because my ISP is routed out of Canada. I am from Maine (Yeah the tiny US state near the CANADIAN border), so one of their hubs is in Montreal. So there!

*laughs uncontrollably*

Ok, you know what? I'm going to end this once and for all,

No you're not. You can't let it go.

What I'm saying is, don't bash anime because people get obsessed with it easily, that's not the anime's problem, it's the people who watch it. That's why I compare it to rap, yet you're still probably not going to know what I mean.

As I've explained before, I've been talking about anime fans, not anime itself. Comments such as "Akira sucks" were written only to get a rise out of Otacon. I have explained this before.

And also, you said that you would go "ah, whatever" to someone that insulted what you liked. So tell me,do you think that what they say to you is fact, or opinion?

It might be a combination of both. But if it is one or the other, or a mixture of both, it will not matter to me regardless.

You gotta remember something, you saying that anime sucks is an opinion, not a fact. If you don't like anime for whatever reason that it has

This is a recording. I've been talking about anime fans, not anime itself. This is a recording.

Don't try to convince people that they should like this or that because of this. People like whatever it is they like for that something that it has that you don't see. Everything has its negative and positive points.

Gokugirl, clear your mind. Take a deep breath. Be like the uncarved block. Do not project, receive. Now:

I do not care if you, or anyone else likes, dislikes, hates, loves, or is indifferent to anime. I am not trying to tell you that you should not watch [insert whatever show here].

I am not interested in whether anime is good, bad, indifferent, a leading cause of cancer, or a proven vaccine to SARS.

I am trying to tell you that your attitude as an anime fan is incorrect. You want me change my attitude to accept more anime fans. This is counterproductive.

You should change your attitude to "Thankfully Jason, I don't give a damn what you think." You came so close in your last post, too.

you're naturally going to say why something you like doesn't suck to your friends and stuff like that.

Nope, I'm a patriot, not a nationalist. The door is always open for those wish to enter in, but I never recruit or bore my friends about my hobbies.

*shakes her head in discust*

Shall I confuse the issue further and say that a poster named Sheri also used the word "discust"? Too late, I did.

Are you that poster as well? Later you do wonder about being two billion people...

Hmm...is he being serious here or facetious?

So, if I don't agree with you, I am oh so very wrong, and when I do, I am still wrong.

Originally you said you agreed with Gokugirl. Do you agree with us both? Can you see the source of my confusion now?

Yet two lines later, you give them YET another reason to feel that way and leave an opening for them, knowing blatantly that they will take the bait. That would be same as me saying at the bottom of this post "So what do ya think about that?" Getting a response and going ape shit. LOL

This is exactly my purpose here. I've blatantly stated it several times. Here it is again: I am playing Devil's Advocate here. I am arguing here solely to keep people writing back. Capital of Nasty gets five dollars every time someone responds to me. I lose when you ignore me. I've declared people who have figured this out winners of these exchanges. I don't see how I can make it more obvious.

What cartoons are really about? I think that because I am a grown-upwith a line of degrees and a real job...

You said you were a Media Sales Representative. May I ask in what capacity? Flame war aside, I'm genuinely curious, as I may have need of one. Are you freelance or do you have a salaried position? In what fields of media?

If you do not think it is appropriate to discuss this here, I can be reached at feste10@hotmail.com. I assure you I will NOT continue the flame war in email form or harass you in any way. In fact, if you find these questions inappropriate entirely, say the word and I will drop the subject.

I never said Jason was the creator of the article. A comma can be used to seperate things that are meant to addressed at the same time for the same purpose.

And now back to our regularly scheduled flame war.

The punctuation may have been correct, but the meaning was unclear. One possible reading makes it sound like you were referring to me as the author of the article. It would have been more clear had you named him specifically. Style guides will not necessarily fix everything.

When you all do check the logs and see that we are not the same person, you are going to feel rather stupid...but chances are because the people who made this sub-par website are so insecure about being wrong

If the log entries verify this, it will be admitted. Give us some credit.

Wow, I never realized that I was like 2 billion people.

I am a mere 43 people myself, but growing.

You claimed that EVERY anime fan comes complete with a resume of shows. Where's mine?

Oh, if you're an anime fan, you've got one. You just haven't posted it yet. You're not likely to post it now that I've just challenged you on it.

I am still very amazed at everyone's belligerance and hate towards people they don't even know.

Belligerance and hate? You called the website "sub-par" and compared us to Saddam Hussein. Don't you think that's more overboard?

This is a Candian electronic magazine from Toronto, Ontario to be specific. No wonder you all hate anime.

I happen to know the author of the article has seen imported anime as well. Whatever you think of his opinion, he did not arrive at it after a few shows of watered-down Sailor Moon.

Shiva:

This is a Candian electronic magazine from Toronto, Ontario to be specific. No wonder you all hate anime. I've seen the schedule for YTV and jesus christ, if I was subjected to Sailor Moon four times I day, I'd want to shoot myself.

Did you read the article? I was born in Canada, but I was not raised in Canada.

As for YTV, you require a vasectomy in order to enjoy properly. I skipped on that procedure :)

To Gokugirl826:

why is it that sometimes the internet explorer can't find this website even after I'm already in it?? Like, I come here, then when I press back, then forward, it says "cannot find server", when I was just here with no problem at the moment. Do I need to be a member or something like that?? On some computers it works, and on some it doesn't. I don't know why.

If you actually include an e-mail address when writing via the contact system, I could actually reply to you. :)

leandro

Jason said: "Or am I bluffing? Perhaps I really do have multiple personalities. Or, maybe I am a diabolically good actor. What if I am also one of the people I have fought with? Wouldn't that be a corker?"

Mr. M., you twist and turn like a twisty turny thing!

Big fan of anime myself. Got hooked on Starblazers when I was a kid and haven't looked back since. I used to rent bucket loads of it and watch it raw while I lived in Japan. Great stuff.

Miyazaki is a frickin genius, just went and saw "Spirited Away" last weekend... deserved every damn academy award it got!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled charater assassinations...

If the log entries verify this, it will be admitted. Give us some credit.

I checked and they are posting from significantly different IP ranges.

leandro :)

Hey, come on, Jason, come on, man. I'm through with you already. The fact is I like anime and you don't. I will like anime forever and ever and ever. Ok? Ok. Ya. 'Nuff said. I'm not gonna change your mind, and you're not gonna change mine. If you wanna keep arguing, fine. If you want to think I'm insecure because I'm still posting, fine. Do whatever you want. I'm just posting for fun now. ^_^. Let's see what these people say!! ^_^

Hey, come on, Jason, come on, man. I'm through with you already.

You said you were done once already. You came back.

The fact is I like anime and you don't.

When did I ever say I didn't like anime?

If you want to think I'm insecure because I'm still posting, fine.

Ooooh, so close...

I'm just posting for fun now.

Why were you posting previously?

Hey, WAZAAAAAAAPPP Tim?? You're an anime lover just like me!! These people here are going to say how wrong you are and stuff like that, so get ready for a fun argument!! I wanna go see that movie too!! Don't worry, I got your back!! ^_^

Ok, Jason, what I meant with that I was through with you, I meant that I was through with YOU!! YOU!! JASON (last name)!!
I guess we're not so different, you and I......^_^ You know you're having fun too!! Admit it!! ^_^

PS. Robert's a moron.

Why were you posting previously?

For fun. I told you that already, silly!!!

Why were you posting previously?

For fun. I told you that already, silly!!!

That's one post to me after you said you were done with me... how about two? Do I hear two?

I may have said that I agreed with Gokugirl, but in a later post I said that I agreed with the writer of the article as well as yourself, Jason. Have you ever thought it possible to see both sides of the "argument" and perchance, just maybe see positive and valid points on both? That was my point.

I work in televised media, namely commercials and it's a salaried position. I also telecommute on many days. I shall not indulge your curiosities any further, because I have no reason nor do I have to. I'm not going to email you either. I have answered what I have deemed appropriate, and like what you said, I expect that you shall drop the subject, less you feel inclined to answer rather person information at the request of badgering dregs.

The anime resume...well, most every anime fan does have them. The same applies for anything anyone likes. If you like something, then you are so inclined to remember what you've seen, done, heard, etc. If you like a certain music artist, and if someone asks about that said music artist, you shall probably share your list of discography. Does this make you bad? Nope. You waited until someone inquired about said artist. I have an anime resume, but I only spill forth my list at a viable request, not for "currency".

This website is "Sub-Par". While at school earning my degrees, as well as now for fun, I am a freelance web designer. The content is good, but the design and asthetic capabilities are well, not very good at all. It's bland and basic. Not really worth the five dollars for each post you say you get, but hell, if it gets you five bucks...then thank me for helping you out. LOL

As for the Saddam Hussien crack, a bit overboard, but I was referring to one's personality and thoughts of others. No, I am sure that you do not want to kill your own countrymen (I hope)...but your attitudes and posting seem to dictate that you place little value in people who's beliefs are not your own. That is my juxtaposition.

If the owner of this place, namely Leo was born but not raised in canada, then why would his site be hosted out of canada? Usually hosts do not like to cross political borders, at least for sanity's sake. And why would your contact email be linked to a Canadian "privacy" service? I just find it rather odd, to have been born in one country, be raised in another and then host a website in the country that you are no longer affiliate with...please, enlighten me. With that aside, thank you for checking the log and seeing that we all are our own people.

To Gokugirl, the reason why sometimes you get the "Cannot find page" error is because one of their web servers bounces off of Norway. You come across as an american, so if you happen to grab the page that's bouncing off the server that far away, then it might not display right, or it might not even display at all. For the most part, the rest bounce off places in the US, which is why the site works properly most of the time.

Alright, so can we all continue this silly little debate now? This is rather amusing to me still.

I may have said that I agreed with Gokugirl, but in a later post I said that I agreed with the writer of the article as well as yourself, Jason. Have you ever thought it possible to see both sides of the "argument" and perchance, just maybe see positive and valid points on both?

Oh, absolutely. In order to play Devil's Advocate, an understanding of as many sides of the issue as possible is essential. However:

Leandro says anime and anime fans suck.

I say anime fans are obsessive and insecure.

Gokugirl says that anime and anime fans do not suck. Furthermore, anime is in fact "da bombs."

Gokugirl also says that she is not obsessive or insecure.

You agree with all three of us?

I expect that you shall drop the subject, less you feel inclined to answer rather person information at the request of badgering dregs.

Thank you for your response, but your specialty is not what I am looking for. Subject dropped.

This website is "Sub-Par". While at school earning my degrees, as well as now for fun, I am a freelance web designer. The content is good, but the design and asthetic capabilities are well, not very good at all.

Fortunately, we like it just fine.

As for the Saddam Hussien crack, a bit overboard, but I was referring to one's personality and thoughts of others. No, I am sure that you do not want to kill your own countrymen (I hope)...but your attitudes and posting seem to dictate that you place little value in people who's beliefs are not your own. That is my juxtaposition.

"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good/Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"

I am trying to get anime fans to place value in their beliefs. I've been surprisingly successful--Aethos, Otacon, Pro-Anime Supporter, and I have to say Gokugirl is doing the best job so far of handling my attacks. And you compare me to a man who uses chemical weapons on the Kurds, had invaded another nation, and allows his family to rape and plunder the country.

My feelings are hurt.

People keep asking me to change my attitude. I keep asking why my attitude matters to them. Nobody has presented me with a clear response. If you would be the first, I would appreciate it.

If the owner of this place, namely Leo was born but not raised in canada, then why would his site be hosted out of canada?

Leo will have to answer this question if he desires. But you should be aware that there are many websites hosted all over the place for various reasons. The nationality of users and owners may have nothing to do with the hosting.

With that aside, thank you for checking the log and seeing that we all are our own people.

See, I told you we'd admit it.

Alright, so can we all continue this silly little debate now? This is rather amusing to me still.

I thought we were.

Hey, thanks, SHIVA!! At least SOMEONE answered my question!
And hey, gracias to you too, Jason!! ^_^

J:That's one post to me after you said you were done with me... how about two? Do I hear two?

G:Tu quiere mambo, Jason? Tu quiere mambo??!

G:Tu quiere mambo, Jason? Tu quiere mambo??!

Two.

Let's go for 3, Jason!!

Four.

I don't agree with Leo 100% because I like anime, but some anime fans do really suck. The ones that if you say, "I hate DBZ" and then they won't shut up for days at how you're wrong without giving you a reason why other than "You suck!", suck. All anime fans do not suck in my opinion. Some are well adjusted and very successful people.

I agree with Jason, some anime fans are much to obessive and insecure. This ties in with our DBZ fan from the above section. Many don't know when to not push their anime beliefs on others. And many more don't know where to meet fellow anime people and thusly, become insecure.

I also agree with Gokugirl, but not 100%. Some anime is good, some isn't. Some fans are good people, some aren't. As for whether or not she's not obessive or insecure, I'm not her, I don't know how she feels. So I can't comment on that.

Yes the site is fine, but like all man made creations in life, it can be better. Striving to be better once we reach our last goal is what humans are all about. This site obviously has a decent fanbase and a good team of instigaters, go with it! Make it bigger!

Jason, you do not see a difference in actions and personality. A person who is angry and kicks a pillow when they are angry and a person who is angry and kills a person when they are angry are both ANGRY people...their personality is anger. I am comparing their thought process, not comparing the pillow kicking to people killing. There is a difference.

Your attitude is fine. No one has attitude problems, people have perception problems. LOL. You are just a hypocrite and I think that's the word that no one can seem to come up with when describing your attitude. Have an attitude, hell be an asshole, a dirty bastard...FINE! I can respect that...just don't contradict and flame the things that you do yourself. It's not very attractive and becomming of a person.

As for the hosting, I'll wait for Leo's response. The only sane thing I could think of to host this place out of Canada, would be to target a Canadian audience. Otherwise, then visitors would encounter Gokugirl's problems with site function.

Why am I seen as an animal? You said quoting the animals, but you only quoted me. Oh, this is just lovely. Someone who had previously relied on simply taking one's words and twisting them to his own advantage is now staggering into the lowly depths of mudslinging. I honestly thought that you of all people would be the better person and not resort to such stupidities as "Quoting the animals".

Anime fans, alongside those who don't agree with Jason 100% are animals...in that case, our dillegent author Leo is an animal as well. Gokugirl, Aethos, Otacon and Pro-Anime Supporter are all animals as well. Oh, I bet that means the CEOs of Sony and Squaresoft are animals as well because much of their video game arts are anime in nature. Call it a far stretch, but I take things as I see them and run.

What a world of animals we live in! LOL

Jason, you do not see a difference in actions and personality. A person who is angry and kicks a pillow when they are angry and a person who is angry and kills a person when they are angry are both ANGRY people...their personality is anger. I am comparing their thought process, not comparing the pillow kicking to people killing. There is a difference.

I see the difference. Results however are more important than motivations. What I am suggesting to you is that a person who kicks a pillow is preferable to a person who kills, and someone who bashes anime fans is preferable to Saddam Hussien. And not by a small margin.

The things you describe are aggressive actions. If went around kicking or killing anime fans, they'd have every right to their outrage. But I'm all talk. Is the world of anime truly diminished by my presence? Apparently so, since I supposedly contribute the negativity that hampers their enjoyment. People attach far too much importance to me, and not enough to themselves.

Your attitude is fine. No one has attitude problems, people have perception problems. LOL.

Correct.

I can respect that...just don't contradict and flame the things that you do yourself. It's not very attractive and becomming of a person.

In what areas do you feel I been hypocritical?

Why am I seen as an animal? You said quoting the animals, but you only quoted me. Oh, this is just lovely. Someone who had previously relied on simply taking one's words and twisting them to his own advantage is now staggering into the lowly depths of mudslinging.

Wow, you just smashed your own record for Olympic Conclusion Jumping. The previous post contained the quote "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good/Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood." This is from a song called "Misunderstood," performed by a group called...The Animals. The song's title becomes especially appropriate after your last post. The Animals also did a version of "House of the Rising Sun," which I detest.

I honestly thought that you of all people would be the better person and not resort to such stupidities as "Quoting the animals".

Baby, do you understand me now?
Sometimes I feel a little mad But don't you know that no one alive Can always be an angel When things go wrong I seem to be bad But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood

Anime fans, alongside those who don't agree with Jason 100% are animals...in that case, our dillegent author Leo is an animal as well.

This would be a good way of managing the insult, had I actually made it.

Just because you automatically ran straight for the ending, my point was the personality. I don't give a damned about the ending. This is exactly what I talk about when I speak about you twisting words. I was using that such example as a means of thought process. There could have been a million examples, I just randomly chose that one. For you to juxtapose a violent hate crime with pillow kicking, you my friend, have the issues. I am talking in apples and oranges, you are trying to make fruit juice. It doesn't work, at least not logically.

You are hypocritical in flaming those pro-anime people, or as a matter of fact, anyone who does not agree with you 100%. You flame them for posting their opinions and even giving their opinions a bit of fact basis. You make this seem wrong. Yet you do the same over and over again. If anything, the most of the flames and anti-posting should come from the Leo, but they aren't.

I have no idea who the Animals are, and usually, well at least modern dictation would recommend that when quoting a source not of one's ownself, that you place a quote source in a manner understandable by all. You instigated this, and naturally when someone sees they are being refered to as an animal, they react. I am not the only one who would mind you. So then you write back reminding them how much of an asshole they are and how wonderfully right you are.

Your attitude, that above is what is wrong with it. No one gives a damned about your attitude towards anime. It would have to be your "my fucking shit don't stink but when I get in the real world, I am going to be digging my balls out of my ass daily" attitude that is really killing most readers. Get off your high horse. You treat your readers like shit. After reading this column initially, I actually considered reading others, just to spark my interest, but now I have no desire to. If this site gets five bucks for each response, then wouldn't you want a loudmouth like myself to perhaps venture into your other pages and give you guys money. Constantly badgering, belittling and acting like the all-mightly you consider yourself to be, isn't good for business.

For you to juxtapose a violent hate crime with pillow kicking, you my friend, have the issues.

You're the one who made the comparison. Do you have issues as well? You said that a person who kill in anger and a person who kicks a pillow in anger, have a similar thought process. So while one does something far more harmful, they both come from the same seed, according to you. This itself I find questionable, but I merely took your comparison to the logical consequence. As in, nobody is likely to get arrested for kicking a pillow. Anime bashing and anime fan bashing is pillow-kicking, you seem to think it's something far worse.

You know, in all this I am actually quite curious about Saddam Hussien's opinion of anime. Hopefully someone will ask him before his trial. If he's not already dead.

You are hypocritical in flaming those pro-anime people, or as a matter of fact, anyone who does not agree with you 100%. You flame them for posting their opinions and even giving their opinions a bit of fact basis. You make this seem wrong. Yet you do the same over and over again. If anything, the most of the flames and anti-posting should come from the Leo, but they aren't.

I'm a hypocrite all right, but not for these reasons. You make it sound as that when someone posts something, I just douse them with a stream of blind hatred. What I do is argue the points they make. In so doing, they become better debaters. I use sarcasm and condescend all right, but I get as good as I give. I've seen anime fans' composition improve dramatically after a few rounds with me. And in the end, they become stronger anime fans because they grow above this silliness. See, that's what anime fans don't get. I'm on their side.

that you place a quote source in a manner understandable by all. You instigated this,

Though I did not attach a source to the quote itself, I did place quotation marks on the quote, despite your claim that "you only quoted me." I am sorry if this was not sufficient for you.

As to who The Animals were, they were a band from the 60s. They had a few hits, but nothing I'd recommend running out right now to get.

So then you write back reminding them how much of an asshole they are and how wonderfully right you are.

I'd say that's a point in my favor. You resorting to profanity before me. Quite frankly, I'm shocked that you of all people would stoop so low.

No one gives a damned about your attitude towards anime.

If only they truly did, this would be an empty forum.

It would have to be your "my fucking shit don't stink but when I get in the real world, I am going to be digging my balls out of my ass daily

Watch your language, there are men present.

You treat your readers like shit. After reading this column initially, I actually considered reading others, just to spark my interest, but now I have no desire to.

That's a pity. There's some good stuff here.

Incidentally, this is the most legitimate criticism I've seed posted on this forum. Why don't you direct an email to the editor of this site, Leandro? With a clear, rational complaint, it will fall upon him to determine if my little game is worth the cost of your readership, and others like you. In fact, given my contributions, you now force me to reconsider. I will certainly comply with Leo if he were to tell me to stop.

If this site gets five bucks for each response, then wouldn't you want a loudmouth like myself to perhaps venture into your other pages and give you guys money. Constantly badgering, belittling and acting like the all-mightly you consider yourself to be, isn't good for business.

Again, the part about the five dollars was a joke. Oh, and far from considering myself all-mighty, I have admitted before that what I am doing is immature. And yes, I'm a hypocrite too. A pity you don't want to venture into the other articles, because there's a prime example of me being a hypocrite floating in one of them, waiting for an alert anime fan to toss in my face. Furthermore, I have made it clear that Aethos, Otacon, Pro-Anime Supporter, they have all beaten me. They have proved me incorrect. They winners. Me loser. I also have high hopes for Gokugirl, who is trying a very new and very effective tactic against me.

Man things have gone chaotic here from intelligent debates to an identity crisis could this forum GET any more exciting.

Ok to state a few things I believe that Gokugirl is on the same wave as Aethos in what they were trying to prove during your skirmish with her. They were both trying to prove that you only claim that anime fans are the obsessive ones and then dismiss any other forms of entertainment that are at that same stage of popularity just because they ARE NOT anime. At least that's what I've seen after reading through the Aethos skirmish and this one. Just seems to me that in their minds they believe that YOU think anime fans are the only obsessive people in the world Jason. That is why they brought up other forms of entertainment such as rap, pop, and all that other stuff heck you could even say Rock is just as bad or worse than anime but that's not the point of this argument.

Basically, the main perception with anime fans is that they think anti anime supporters have never watched an anime in their life and yet are willing to just go out and bash them right away. You do realize that anti anime supporters bash the fans more than the anime. I believe that anime fans retaliate because of their pride. They just aren't willing to let anyone call them gay or stupid without a fight and if that's the case let them fight more power to them right?

However, I at least have to agree that it's being really childish to claim that all anime fans are like the superman fans who actually jumped off their roof's wearing capes because they believed by watching superman they could fly. When was the last time you saw anime fans doing something like that?

Also is it wrong that anime fans cosplay and go to conventions? I believe this is why star trek was brought up because they do the exact same thing and yet it's only wrong for anime fans to do that? Well gee that just sounds biased doesn't it; they have the right to do whatever the hell they want because as gokugirl said life is how you live it. That is the true basis for life, if we all didn't enjoy a form of entertainment to the verge of obsession we'd be leading very boring lives. I could say that you're obsessed with this article but that wouldn't be a bad thing. I mean what would you do with your time then if you weren't posting on here? You'd probably be arguing with somebody else.

They were both trying to prove that you only claim that anime fans are the obsessive ones and then dismiss any other forms of entertainment that are at that same stage of popularity just because they ARE NOT anime.

And I'm not. Again I challenge anyone to point out where I said that only anime fans are obsessive. You'll find that I have said a great many people are obsessed with a great many things. We are only talking about anime fans here because this happens to be a forum about them. If this were a Star Trek fan forum, I wouldn't be talking about anime fans.

As to other forms of entertainment, it doesn't matter how popular they are, it's how the fans behave. Generally, the more obscure the interest, the more insufferable the fan.

Just seems to me that in their minds they believe that YOU think anime fans are the only obsessive people in the world Jason.

I know some do. And they're wrong. I've explained this to them. Now it falls upon them to listen.

That is why they brought up other forms of entertainment such as rap, pop, and all that other stuff heck you could even say Rock is just as bad or worse than anime but that's not the point of this argument.

That statement may not be the point of this argument, but it is worth exploring. It has come up before. You could probably produce a valid argument somewhere when anime fans compare themselves to fans of other media, but this is not what's been happening. What I have been consistently told is that "Yeah, well [whatever] fans are just as bad, if not worse." This is like me going on trial for killing six people and then telling the judge, "Yeah, but the guy on trial after me killed six too, maybe seven."

I've said before anyone here retaliating against this article is wasting their time. But if they are going to do it, can't they come up with something better than "other things suck worse"? Dammit, show some pride!

anime fans is that they think anti anime supporters have never watched an anime in their life and yet are willing to just go out and bash them right away. You do realize that anti anime supporters bash the fans more than the anime.

Yes, I'm glad you see that about my argument. In this case however, Leandro mentioned that he seen quite a bit of anime, and met quite a few anime fans. And he has arrived at the conclusion that he does not like it.

They just aren't willing to let anyone call them gay or stupid without a fight and if that's the case let them fight more power to them right?

Ah, but that's not more power to them. It's more power to the person who made the insult.

Also is it wrong that anime fans cosplay and go to conventions? I believe this is why star trek was brought up because they do the exact same thing and yet it's only wrong for anime fans to do that?

Please show me where I said it was wrong for anyone to go to conventions and cosplay.

You know, nobody has ever asked me a very pertinent question about my attitudes towards anime itself.

Well gee that just sounds biased doesn't it;

It certainly does. I pity whoever said it.

That is the true basis for life, if we all didn't enjoy a form of entertainment to the verge of obsession we'd be leading very boring lives.

I believe in moderation. Like a Buddhist. In any event, I believe I am helping anime fans to enjoy their interest more.

I could say that you're obsessed with this article but that wouldn't be a bad thing.

Well, that's debatable. Several people have said I'm being immature and hypocritical and they're right. This arguing is probably not healthy for me.

I mean what would you do with your time then if you weren't posting on here?

You'd be amazed at how much I get done in a day.

As for the hosting, I'll wait for Leo's response. The only sane thing I could think of to host this place out of Canada, would be to target a Canadian audience. Otherwise, then visitors would encounter Gokugirl's problems with site function.

I'd really appreciate if those experiencing problems would kindly contact me (either via the Contact form or by grabbing my real e-mail address that can be found in the About section). Please include a way for me to write back. No, I will not flame you.

Thanks.

leandro

Guiding Light said: "They were both trying to prove that you only claim that anime fans are the obsessive ones and then dismiss any other forms of entertainment that are at that same stage of popularity just because they ARE NOT anime."

And Jason responded: "And I'm not. Again I challenge anyone to point out where I said that only anime fans are obsessive. You'll find that I have said a great many people are obsessed with a great many things. We are only talking about anime fans here because this happens to be a forum about them. If this were a Star Trek fan forum, I wouldn't be talking about anime fans."

Which is right. Jason hasn't said that Anime fans are the only obssessed people out there, and so on. And when I read Guiding Light's post, it started off sounding like they were agreeing that Jason hadn't made those points. Which seemed to be implied by statements such as:

"Just seems to me that in their minds they believe that YOU think anime fans are the only obsessive people in the world Jason".

Which makes the next part confusing, because it seems Guiding Light is contradicting themself.

"However, I at least have to agree that it's being really childish to claim that all anime fans are like the superman fans who actually jumped off their roof's wearing capes because they believed by watching superman they could fly. When was the last time you saw anime fans doing something like that? Also is it wrong that anime fans cosplay and go to conventions? I believe this is why star trek was brought up because they do the exact same thing and yet it's only wrong for anime fans to do that? Well gee that just sounds biased doesn't it; they have the right to do whatever the hell they want because as gokugirl said life is how you live it. That is the true basis for life, if we all didn't enjoy a form of entertainment to the verge of obsession we'd be leading very boring lives. I could say that you're obsessed with this article but that wouldn't be a bad thing. I mean what would you do with your time then if you weren't posting on here? You'd probably be arguing with somebody else."

Which seems very similar to what they said the last time they made an appearance in this realm.

So what was Guiding Light's point, exactly?

First off, who said I'm on anyone's side I consider myself netral in this debate. I believe both sides make good points but they have been becoming more redundant and more childish as of late. After all the whole argument of anime fans being obsessive cult members can only go so far before it becomes uninteresting as well as the argument of "These people are just as bad if not worse than anime fans" And clearly I was just commenting and trying to clear up these arguments for both sides. If I have taken it the wrong way then I apologize.

Besides I'd love to hear Jason's thoughts on anime I'm sure he's got quite a few stories to tell.

Just give up now while you're still sane. I've tried in past posts in plain English to reitterate my views on both sides, both having very valid and understandable points. This was all done in vain and sent me into a state which allowed myself to fill my posts with vile and childish sweaing.

Being neutral is impossible according to Jason, even if you give him your points for each party. Don't let this thread make you do that. LOL.

Hey, GuidingLight!!! You wanna know what Jason thinks of Anime? Go up and check one of the earlier arguments I've had with him. These are his opinions of some of my favorite animes. I would love to hear what Jason says about Anime in general, though. ^_^

You reading the replies and such, I was going to post my reply to the letter just to show you how I didn't do much in the ways of FLAMING that kid, I just gave him my view on how I am a biased fan to anime and such. BUT silly me I forgot disk I wrote it on XD ((I'm doing this using a college comp ppl)) so if the site works and doesnt do that 'cannot find' thing on me I will show you...or Can I just email to Jason and Leandro? Oh well I'll see what I can do.

Its a long reply at the end. I had a post to Light Guardian? ((was it?)) Too

By SHIVA You are hypocritical in flaming those pro-anime people, or as a matter of fact, anyone who does not agree with you 100%. You flame them for posting their opinions and even giving their opinions a bit of fact basis.

As far as I read, its been mostly defensive anime fans that have been flaming this site, Jason is just pointing out his dislike for anime and everyone says ITS WRONG TO HATE ANIME, and its not! People can hate anything they want its not against the law.

By LIGHT GUIDE YOU think anime fans are the only obsessive people in the world Jason. That is why they brought up other forms of entertainment such as rap, pop, and all that other stuff heck you could even say Rock is just as bad or worse than anime but that's not the point of this argument.

Also is it wrong that anime fans cosplay and go to conventions? I believe this is why star trek was brought up because they do the exact same thing and yet it's only wrong for anime fans to do that? Well gee that just sounds biased doesn't it; they have the right to do whatever the hell they want because as gokugirl said life is how you live it. That is the true basis for life, if we all didn't enjoy a form of entertainment to the verge of obsession we'd be leading very boring lives. I could say that you're obsessed with this article but that wouldn't be a bad thing. I mean what would you do with your time then if you weren't posting on here? You'd probably be arguing with somebody else.

In term, yes that is very biased, you point something out that Jason does, and you turn around and do the same thing. I'm not on Jasons side 100% I'm not on anyone side, there are some pro anime post that make sense...too bad its being over shadow by ones I find pointless.

By: isha (confuzzled) Thinking outloud

^_^ I have to agree with your whole post...

Anyone can jump up and say they are a fan of anime, I am too I don't care, but as soon as you have an opinion on anime itself, or an entire series or Japan...Man people turn ugly! My email explains it but as you can see I don't have it at the momento. I cringe at this line for the DragonBall Z game "Don't call them cartoons, they hate being called cartoons I can not stand that line, it just seems to feed into Otakus everywhere. Its actually a pretty fun game LOL my little cuz have it, but its that line in the commercial that bugs me.

Another by TADA Jeesh, I just figured out why the writer of the article and all the other people at capnasty.org hate anime. This is a Candian electronic magazine from Toronto, Ontario to be specific. No wonder you all hate anime. I've seen the schedule for YTV and jesus christ, if I was subjected to Sailor Moon four times I day, I'd want to shoot myself. Now, I honestly can feel for the poor author, having to grow up with that sort of tv viewing schedule. My kudos to you for being so well-adjusted after being forced into THAT.

Shiva, you SEEM pretty much like the email and thousands of online boards I've seen by an anime fan, you seem to think that watching uncut undubbed anime makes anime that much better, and watching TV edits just makes people less of a fan and starts anti anime sites and such, when it doesnt! I've heard from people who watched anime in its original form and they still don't like it, IMO it has NOTHING to do with how its seen on TV its just this person doesn't have a like for it and most likely never will, just accept that.

ACK got the italics all wrong, MAN this thing should be saved in history!

I was going to post my reply to the letter just to show you how I didn't do much in the ways of FLAMING that kid, I just gave him my view on how I am a biased fan to anime and such. BUT silly me I forgot disk I wrote it on XD ((I'm doing this using a college comp ppl)) so if the site works and doesnt do that 'cannot find' thing on me I will show you...or Can I just email to Jason and Leandro? Oh well I'll see what I can do.

Its a long reply email at the end. I had a post to Light Guardian? ((was it?)) Too

By SHIVA You are hypocritical in flaming those pro-anime people, or as a matter of fact, anyone who does not agree with you 100%. You flame them for posting their opinions and even giving their opinions a bit of fact basis.

As far as I read, its been mostly defensive anime fans that have been flaming this site, Jason is just pointing out his dislike for anime and everyone says ITS WRONG TO HATE ANIME, and its not! People can hate anything they want its not against the law.

By LIGHT GUIDE YOU think anime fans are the only obsessive people in the world Jason. That is why they brought up other forms of entertainment such as rap, pop, and all that other stuff heck you could even say Rock is just as bad or worse than anime but that's not the point of this argument.

Also is it wrong that anime fans cosplay and go to conventions? I believe this is why star trek was brought up because they do the exact same thing and yet it's only wrong for anime fans to do that? Well gee that just sounds biased doesn't it; they have the right to do whatever the hell they want because as gokugirl said life is how you live it. That is the true basis for life, if we all didn't enjoy a form of entertainment to the verge of obsession we'd be leading very boring lives. I could say that you're obsessed with this article but that wouldn't be a bad thing. I mean what would you do with your time then if you weren't posting on here? You'd probably be arguing with somebody else.

In term, yes that is very biased, you point something out that Jason does, and you turn around and do the same thing. I'm not on Jasons side 100% I'm not on anyone side, there are some pro anime post that make sense...too bad its being over shadow by ones I find pointless. This is not aimed at you.

By: isha (confuzzled) Thinking outloud

^_^ I have to agree with your whole post...

Anyone can jump up and say they are a fan of anime, I am too I don't care, but as soon as you have an opinion on anime itself, or an entire series or Japan...Man people turn ugly! My email explains it but as you can see I don't have it at the momento. I cringe at this line for the DragonBall Z game "Don't call them cartoons, they hate being called cartoons" I can not stand that line, it just seems to feed into Otakus everywhere. Its actually a pretty fun game LOL my little cuz have it, but its that line in the commercial that bugs me.

Another by TADA Shiva Jeesh, I just figured out why the writer of the article and all the other people at capnasty.org hate anime. This is a Candian electronic magazine from Toronto, Ontario to be specific. No wonder you all hate anime. I've seen the schedule for YTV and jesus christ, if I was subjected to Sailor Moon four times I day, I'd want to shoot myself. Now, I honestly can feel for the poor author, having to grow up with that sort of tv viewing schedule. My kudos to you for being so well-adjusted after being forced into THAT.

Shiva, you SEEM pretty much like the email and thousands of online boards I've seen by an anime fan, you seem to think that watching uncut undubbed anime makes anime that much better, and watching TV edits just makes people less of a fan and starts anti anime sites and such, when it doesnt! I've heard from people who watched anime in its original form and they still don't like it, IMO it has NOTHING to do with how its seen on TV its just this person doesn't have a like for it and most likely never will, just accept that.
On second thought don't cause thats what makes you You

Ok, Jason, mira. You wanna know why you and I are alike? We like to argue and get our message across no matter what. Even when the person has said "I give up!!", but you don't feel that your message has reached them truly, you keep going.

I'm like that too, don't get me wrong. The reason I keep posting on this forum is because I enjoy arguing with you. That's what I meant with that I'm posting for fun. I wanna hear what other people have to say, and then argue with them. ^_^!

So, if you feel that I'm going to "beat you" by leaving, you're mistaken. I'll send you 100 messages directed to you, Jason, if I want to. I feel I've already won. You know you have fun too, so don't deny it. ^_^ That's why you keep provoking people, so that they could keep posting. And it's true, you do make better arguers out of us anime fans, that's why you keep provoking us. Now for Leandro, he's a CHICKEN!!! CHICKEN!!COME OUT AND ARGUE WITH US MAN!! ^_^ ^_^

He dicho. Caso cerrado.

First of all I wanna say to BAF, there are usually three sides to an arguement of this size, two that are polar opposites and one that is relatively neutral. Pick one for the love of God and stick to it. I've read all of your posts and you're not sure just what side you wanna be on. To you, it must seem like Jason's side is winning, so you jumped on to that side. Come five minutes of some dude named "Animerocks" shows up and makes a poignant remark, you'll be rubbing his back. See myself, I chose the middle grounds, and that's where I have stayed. It's not my fault certain posters cannot see that.

BAF, I never once said it was wrong to hate anime. In fact, had you read my other posts, I agreed with Leo and Jason by saying some anime and some anime fans such. When I first came by this article I saw a few people saying what they felt, giving their opinions in very mature and non-offensive ways. They happened to be pro-anime posters. Then I saw those posters get replied to by non-anime supporters. That's alright. The non-anime guys need to have their say as well. But what I saw was the non-anime guys twisting words, acting hypocritically and generally being offensce. Most of the pro-anime were not. (I say most on both sides cause neither side is 100% right or wrong and there are jerks no matter what) BTW, Jason even admitted in an another post that he was a hypocrite, because he is. (I must note that we both think he's a hypocrite, our views why he is are different.) LOL

BAF...you took my words, my words that basically said "LEO I AM AGREEING WITH YOU. ANIME SUCKS!" and twisted them around to sound like I am placing value on those who have seen uncut anime versus dubbed anime. I don't know Leo personally so I can't possibly each and every tv show he's ever seen, so I asumed that some of the anime he disliked was that seen on YTV. As for seeing uncut vs dubbed...Guess what, seeing either does not matter. Some people place currency on the ammount of uncut anime one has seen. I do not. I've seen both and I like some on both and equally DISLIKE some on both. It was the stupid dubbed anime that got me to like anime in the first place. I am not a hypocrite, so for me to actually say what you THINK I said would make me one.

BAF, get this...never once, EVER, have I even suggested that it is wrong to hate anime. I have never once said it at all. Perhaps had you actually, erm let's see...READ my posts you would have seen that. I don't give a damned about who likes anime and who doesn't. I have never once scorned anyone for having negative remarks about anime. Anyone of these non-anime fans could come up to me and say "Anime sucks!" and I wouldn't care.

What I did find disturbing was all of the hatred (and although Jason doesn't think it's there...It is) for anime fans. This forum seems to only equivocate anime with having obsessive fans. Well, yeah there are some. I've admitted it repeatedly. But anime is not the only genre with them. That is the point so many of have been trying to make, myself included. It's just so hard to actually take these anime-fan haters seriously, when you've got people like me saying "Yeah some fans suck, but all don't." and you've got them shouting off, "YOU ALL SUCK...muhahahahha..." and being completely incapable of realizing that not every anime fan out there is the fat, daily cosplaying otaku with permanent ogango's (Even if it's a guy), who has "I love Akira" tatooed on their ass, scream that they know 150 reasons why Inu Yasha nuber 47 was superior to Samurai X number 56.

I have not seen one single anime-fan hater actually admit that there are some "normal" fans out there. If they have, please show me and I will graciously admit that I am oh so very wrong. All these anime-fan haters need to realise that some of us just watch it like it's just another tv show, and that not all of us try to "recruit" people either.

Again BAF...READ my posts and you shall not find one instance where I said it was wrong to dislike anime nor that ALL people who dislike anime are bad. The people are not distasteful, their negative actions towards those they do not equate as "normal" are though.

This part is pointless to most of the viewers of this forum. Stop reading now...

I like cats. This forum could be called "Cats suck" and I could have read it and laughed at some of the things that do suck about cats, and not really say a word. But if I read some ignorant person blathering about, rambling, "All people who like cats are stupid, has a resume of cat books, smells like catnip, are ALL losers, etc." Well then I just might be a wee bit offended and say something.

Gah...I don't know why I even bothered including that. I'm going to get some moron writing back saying "This isn't about cats, it's about anime..." because they are honestly too stupid to see that I am giving an example.

*shakes her head in discust*

At least now I can freely shake my head in discust without having to fear being 2 billion people. LOL.

Jason, let's make this 6. 6 or 7 is it?

S:I like cats. This forum could be called "Cats suck" and I could have read it and laughed at some of the things that do suck about cats, and not really say a word. But if I read some ignorant person blathering about, rambling, "All people who like cats are stupid, has a resume of cat books, smells like catnip, are ALL losers, etc." Well then I just might be a wee bit offended and say something.

Gah...I don't know why I even bothered including that. I'm going to get some moron writing back saying "This isn't about cats, it's about anime..." because they are honestly too stupid to see that I am giving an example.

G:Wow, Shiva. You just keep getting better and better. See, people?? That's another thing I've been trying to say, or mean actually. In fact, that's one of the main points I've been trying to say.

And you know what, Shiva? You're right. Some one is going to write back saying "this isn't about cats", especially you know who. COUGH**jason*COUGH**COUGH**

^_^

Shiva, you SEEM pretty much like the email and thousands of online boards I've seen by an anime fan, you seem to think that watching uncut undubbed anime makes anime that much better

You are looking at typed words, so in terms you have no idea what I was actually thinking at the time. Its the internet, it limits people like that. Anyway I have read your post and you do make points on both and I noticed that, just because I didn't post on it doesn't mean I am against you or your views. I even put that the stuff I write are not flames or put downs.
Yesh its like I pushed you down and didn't apologize. I did say SEEMS, did you miss that or misinterpret? I'm surprised shiva, guide, and goku are still here; this can go on forever and everyones opinions will clash constantly, pretty much everyone who post here except leo and jason-- can leave and never come back, but everyone keeps coming back to defend or putdown or just look for trouble cause this topic has hit a good amount of nerves; and thats understandable.

If you want me to say sorry I will, but for now I think my comments were taken the wrong way, thats why I use words that could count as neutral or biased.

http://www.pojo.com/anime/articles/article1.shtml

Despite being called a dying fad anime hasn't died yet. This article I found very interesting especially since it comes from Pojo an unofficial source but more official than personal websites.

Now for Leandro, he's a CHICKEN!!! CHICKEN!!COME OUT AND ARGUE WITH US MAN!!

Well, Shiva did say that I was an animal.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

On a more serious note, the problem that some of you may be experiencing with the site not working is probably related to the length of the comments you are posting.

That’s because when the system was built we expected nothing more than comments. Not chapters. If you find that your posts start to pass the one page mark, you may want to split them in half and post them as two comments.

Unfortunately this seems to be a limitation with the browser. I'll see if there is a way around this.

In the meanwhile, if you experience problems, please use the contact form (provide an address for me to write back) so I can investigate this further. Thanks.

Cheerio.
leandro

Nice site, Guiding Light!! ^_^! See? That's very true. That's what I was trying to say earlier. I will always like anime because I like it, not because it's a "fad", or what's in, like what happened with Pokemon.

*bows* glad it helped

BAF: It's all good really. I'm not gonna snip a you any more and appologies aren't necessary at all really. Everyone's comments can be taken the wrong way at some point and time. The computer is a good thing, but it tends to hamper the whole "Tone of voice" quality in chatting via comments like these. I believe that many posts by Jason and myself can justify that. LOL

GL: Very cool article. In a way, I would like to see some of the commercially used anime die down. It's rather annoying (to me at least).

Leo: I wouldn't think you a chicken if you were an animal. You'd be something much more stronger but stealthy... O_O. LOL Anyhoo, I myself am fine with site function. I was only trying to help Gokugirl out a bit. What happens to her, probably happens to a VERY small number of viewers and honestly won't be much to worry about ^_^

Gokugirl: Hi...didn't want you to be left out. ^_^

Jason: Where'd you go? Come on, we're all feeling Jason deprived. You're our daily cardio workout. Nothing like fast typing and heated discusion to keep the ol' ticker in shape. LOL

http://techimo.store.yahoo.net/rephpproli.html

Any chance Leo could upgrade us into reviewpost PHP pro? complete with little smilies and organized forums?

CoN is getting the traffic, it's time for a freeway!

It's not too expensive, go on a little public television type thing and get the $!

http://www.vbulletin.com/

oops, I guess vbulletin would be more suitable for forums, but you get the idea...

(thoughts after reading the enormous chain of correspondance that hang around Jason's article like a very heavy thing)...

Wow, look at all the discussion this has provoked! We are now having proposals that the board by upgraded to make more room for the posts this lengthy debate has caused. And some say there is no value in what I do here. Fools.

Due to some formatting problems I may have missed some points and posts, and I apologize for this. In any case, some response to recent posters.

Shiva:

Just give up now while you're still sane.

At last Shiva! You're on my side!

I've tried in past posts in plain English to reitterate my views on both sides, both having very valid and understandable points.

Points which I did not agree with, or I did not agree with their implications and I explained why.

Being neutral is impossible according to Jason, even if you give him your points for each party. Don't let this thread make you do that. LOL.

As evidenced by the part where I wrote "It is impossible to be neutral." I can't seem to find that in any of my posts. I wonder why that is.

You seem to be angry with my exchanges with you, which you admit caused you to resort to "childish" swearing. However, your first post was ignored by me. Your second post contained the infamous "Saddam" reference. Yet you claim that you were merely trying to say there was validity to my side and other other sides of the argument. Interesting way of going about it.

I have not seen one single anime-fan hater actually admit that there are some "normal" fans out there.

That's because you haven't been reading this forum closely. I've admitted it. Aethos, Otacon, and PAS or all such people. Again, I do not think I am better than them. THEY BEAT ME. They proved me incorrect. Of course, I had to make them first.

All people who like cats are stupid, has a resume of cat books, smells like catnip, are ALL losers, etc." Well then I just might be a wee bit offended and say something.

Ah, now see, this is a valid comparison. If this is what people who were talking about rap, Star Trek et al, were trying accomplish before, they failed. To use a mix of your example and what was said before, it would be "You say anime fans suck? Yeah, well cat owners suck too."

But your metaphor is valid because you say that if something else you like were attacked so, you would get offended and respond. Meaning, your behavior would be consistent if you felt your interests were threatened. And therefore, this is why we can expect anime fans to flame this forum. Right?

Now, may take on that, which is the central point of my arguments: You could rip this cat fan hater (or rap fan hater, or anime fan hater for that matter) a new one, but beyond any steam you let off, you're wasting your time. You're not going to change his perception. But never mind that. More importantly, you don't need him to change his perception. The only power he has to prevent you from enjoying your cat, or rap, or Star Trek, or anime, or collecting how to say the word "penguin" in different languages (one of my hobbies actually, I am dead serious), is what you give him.

Argue with him, you only empower him and make his beliefs seem more important than they are.

Do not feed me, and I will starve. So few people have caught on to that.

The only caveat I would add to this is that anime fans are easier to provoke than most. They're insecure you know. Yes, go on about how repetitive I am. You act like not changing my argument is some kind of weakness.

Gokugirl:

You wanna know what Jason thinks of Anime? Go up and check one of the earlier arguments I've had with him. These are his opinions of some of my favorite animes.

No they are not. The only piece of anime I have ever offered an opinion on is Akira, which I repeatedly told Otacon "sucked." However, I later admitted that I had never seen Akira, and thus could not offer an opinion on it one way or another. As I explained, I only did that to provoke Otacon.

You wanna know why you and I are alike? We like to argue and get our message across no matter what. Even when the person has said "I give up!!", but you don't feel that your message has reached them truly, you keep going.

I do like to argue, it would seem very silly to deny that at this point. But I do give up. In several cases, I've had to. Aethos, Otacon, PAS... how can I argue with them when they won't take the bait?

You are also very difficult to argue with, because you have been effectively trying to out-Devil the Devil's Advocate, by responding to my posts, but essentially ignoring their content. Instead you post almost random thoughts. It's a very effective tactic I must say, and very similar to the "How utterly fascinating, would you like a coke" advice I gave Aethos. Bravo.

I feel I've already won. You know you have fun too, so don't deny it.

See anime fans? Now this is how you win.

That's why you keep provoking people, so that they could keep posting.

Yes. How did you determine that? From the two or three times I've come out and said it in this forum?

And you know what, Shiva? You're right. Some one is going to write back saying "this isn't about cats", especially you know who. COUGH**jason*COUGH**COUGH**

Oh ye of little faith.

KittD BAF <--lol Biased Anime Fan:

Jason is just pointing out his dislike for anime and everyone says ITS WRONG TO HATE ANIME, and its not! People can hate anything they want its not against the law.

When did I ever say I hated anime?

J:I do like to argue, it would seem very silly to deny that at this point. But I do give up. In several cases, I've had to. Aethos, Otacon, PAS... how can I argue with them when they won't take the bait?

G: True, True. You got a point. When I argue with my cousin and I keep provoking her, she just gives up on me. That's no fun. -_-. They're really not taking the bait. It feels, incomplete, or something like that. Very true. You can't argue with anyone when they won't take the bait.

How nice of you, Shiva. Wouldn't want you to be left out either. I see you like to argue with Jason too. ^_^

Interesting, Jason has never once said that he hates anime. Or anything else, at that. Really, all he's been doing is contradicting challenger anime fans in a really irritating way......

He also said, when giving debate tips, that you should start by setting out to prove something that you really don't agree with......

Is there a connection here? Is Jason just as obsessed with anime as his opponents? Is Jason a "BAF"? Perhaps Jason is obsessed with not appearing to be obsessed, obsessed with being "normal", and finds the position of devil's advocate provides for those needs?

Of course, Jason also said that starting from that stance allows debating to come easily for the rest of it.

But I would like to know what Jason thinks of anime.

But I would like to know what Jason thinks of anime.

Threehundred and twentyfive comments later, someone finally asks.

leandro

Hahahhaha!

Its taken so damn long!
<3 (leando/shiva/jason) REVSCRJ

KITTD--Jason is just pointing out his dislike for anime

JASON--When did I ever say I hated anime?

God dang, do my words get mixed up this much?! I think the word Dislike and Hate are different from each other. I was stating ((trying)) that you have a certain dislike to anime or its content. Not that you hated it.

Being biased is hard.

BAF: It's all good really. I'm not gonna snip a you any more and appologies aren't necessary at all really. Everyone's comments can be taken the wrong way at some point and time. The computer is a good thing, but it tends to hamper the whole "Tone of voice" quality in chatting via comments like these. I believe that many posts by Jason and myself can justify that. LOL

::thumbs up:: Okay, (^_^)V <--only emotion typed faces can get a point across better then words lol.

I should make some vow not to post in message boards, I totally suck at being social. Which is why I went for the loner role...gotta balance out society some.

I was stating ((trying)) that you have a certain dislike to anime or its content. Not that you hated it.

Fine. When did I ever say I disliked anime?

I'm surprised no-one thought to ask yet. Including me. The obsessive part of the obsessive anime fan assumes that someone is dissing anime/anime-fans (although I think Jason is just playing devil's advocate and probably likes anime, but I'm waiting to find out if I'm right), therefore they need 1 of 2 things: flaming/ass-kicking or enlightening. (uh-oh, did I say that?). In any case, that's what all the anime fans posting on this forum have proved, until they said "stuff it" (or did they give up? Works either way). Which is completely off on a tangent, but oh well.

In any case, that's probably the reason why we haven't asked before. Which just proves the point, really. *I can't win*

But my point is: (directed at Jason) what do you think of anime?

Aha, finally people are noticing that I never said what my opinion of anime in general is, only the fans. You might recall that I spent a lot of time defending the "anime is unhealthy" position during the Aethos era, without actually believing that it was. So Isha's question is very important:

But my point is: (directed at Jason) what do you think of anime?

Wouldn't it be really funny if I chose this exact moment to drop out of this forum, never to return?

By dropping out of this forum, are you proving that you are an anime fan that's not obsessed, or want people to think it's a mystery?

I am glad to see that it wasn't too quiet while I was away. Sick weekend, booo! Yeah, anyhoo, all it good now, so I gotta ramble too. LOL.

This forum is good. This is what forums dream of being! There's nothing more pointless than a forum with three people all saying one word posts. "Hi!"..."Yo..."Word!" (Sorry, bout that last one. Can we still say 'Cough Syrup Cloud'?)

Alright Jason, I admit, you never once said in those words, "It is impossible to be neutral". You're right...but you make it so damned hard to be! BAH to you! There, that's all I want to say about that particular thing. LOL.

"Pinguim" is portuguese. You probably already have that one. ^_^

You're right about another thing. Feed you and you'll be full of debating energy. That's why this post is low calorie ^_~

Isha - Interesting thought. *Ponders it*

REVSCRJ - Bah, stop it! Leo even admitted that we are all different people. >_<

KittD - Lonley is an unfortunate situation. Lone is an asthetic choice.* Quoting Bat Manuel from "The Tick" Live Action (and short lived series on Fox. R.I.P.)

Gokugirl - Hi again! *waves*

Last lil' bit to Jason - Bah...don't go and squirm away just when it's getting good. Come on, take a deep breath, crack those knuckles and type us all one hell of a reply. We know you can do it. ^_^b <---Thumbs up!

>REVSCRJ - Bah, stop it!
>Leo even admitted that we are all different people. >_<

CMON! That whole "identity crisis" was one of the funniest things Ive seen since Bush got an 80% approval rating!

Have a sense of humor.

Hi Gokugrrl ^.^.

Hi Jason.
Hi room.

Anyone wanna chat?
<3 REVSCRJ

I AGREE. Oh god I AGREE. I like japanese cartoons..but not when it gets to the point of being overly cute/googly-eyed and the like. GOD IM SICK OF THAT shit sweat drop crap, odd expressions and whats with the rubbing of the back of the head when talking??

Thats why I stick to Cowboy BeBop, golgo-13, Big O and other cartoons that do NOT rely on cutesy shit.

Serious anime without the fucking bimbos with cat ears,big guns and bigger tits.

I dislike admitting to people that I like japanimation cause I'm sure the person I'm telling this to will lump me in with these otaku weirdos. My penpal in japan tells me that many people in japan consider the "otaku" to be the weirdos, losers and geeks. Big surprise.

I really want to punch out cosplay people.

I hate yaoi, bishonen and hentai.

I hate this new trend in american comics trying to emulate the manga style.

I hate the overabundance in speed lines in american cartoons trying to be anime-like...

Why is it that in some anime conventions, there will always be a smelly, fat, pimply boy dressed like someone from sailor moon or the like?

What is with hardcore otaku fans and the lack of hygiene?

Why are scenes of girls being raped by robotic cocks erotic and romantic?

god I hate otakus

really I just studied japanese for three months. and of course gambatte kudusai means "keep your chin up!" or "you will have a good time". I have no interest in badly overinduced media type cartoons. Jeez get off the type writer and take a nap or some good weed. comatose (Uusalagongamonga) fuck go have a Guiness.

The only reason why you think anime sucks is probably because you have only witnessed the TV versions of anime, which are the worst. (Due to the fact they edit out everything). Prepare yourselfs with my speech.

Anime that has been syndicated to western television undergoes two types of censorship. The first is the censoring of mature material, and the second is the editing of story lines.
The main problem is that they miss the point of anime. In their minds, they see cartoons. And subsequently expect G-rated childrens programs. But most anime is created for college students and adults, and most of the anime that is for kids is created in a culture where kids are not limited to G-rated programs. I’m not talking about France were kids are free to watch nudity on television, but in Japan they make a point to express realism. If someone gets stabbed with a knife, the American cartoon would have it bounce out, teaching that hurting someone has no adverse effect, while the Japanese anime would show the blood, and death, as to prevent a conflict in the child’s mind between reality and TV. In fact, most TV related violence in the US is because kids didn’t understand the consequences of acting out what they saw. In anime, the consequences are clear and real, but when ported over to US television, are censored. In Sailormoon, violent scenes were removed. In Dragon Ball Z, all the blood was re-colored to look like sweat. Other adult themes are also completely removed. For instance, in Sailormoon there was both a gay and a lesbian couple, but in US TV, they made one of the guys a girl, and never showed the girl’s relationship. All this censorship should not be allowed, because it changes the themes and intent of the original. Censorship removes the point of anime.

Something no one would consider censorable material is the very story of the show. Why bother putting a show on TV if you’re going to cut have the story anyway? Well it happens. Robotech lost an entire season on the US. Sailormoon lost 7 out of its 72 episodes for its first season and a half. These edits leave entire gaps in the story, which make viewers confused in later episodes when an understanding of what happened in those episodes is expected. Anime isn’t episodic like American cartoons, it has a continuous story line, tightly linked, and any loss in that chain disrupts the entire series. Most syndicates are fairly indiscriminate in their editing too, they cut out scenes just to make room for commercials, or because they only want so may episodes per season. Also, American TV in dubbing, often changes entire conversations, because they reflect elements of the Japanese culture that others wouldn’t understand. But once again that misses the entire point of watching a foreign show. The idea is to learn about another culture, and experience foreign thoughts, not to change them to match domestic culture. Though I believe it might be the malicious intent of US TV to pretend that the borrowed Japanese anime are American inventions, as I’ve never once seen them directly advertise the fact that these shows come from Japan, as part of a completely unique genre called anime. How many of you knew that Speed Racer, Robotech, Voltron, Sailor Moon, DragonBall, DragonBall Z, and Pokemon were once anime before being domesticated?

All censorship of these types is the equivalent of plagiarism. It quotes the work of someone else, while altering it so that it fits our own culture and needs. Syndicates have to stop missing the point of anime. The only way anime should be presented is how it was created to be. It should be on prime time, because it is not designed for the G-rated children of America. Then the questionable material can be left in, most if which is not worse than anything in Simpsons®, Southpark®, or Beavis and Butthead®, though anime is infinitely more sophisticated and dynamic than the aforementioned shows. Then they should present it in its entirety, to preserve the story it was meant to be told.

Prepare yourselfs with my speech.

Ah blah, blah, blah.

Really. It's admirable that you guys try so hard. The fact remains: I don't care.

Anyone wanna chat?

irc.capnasty.org

#con

leandro

Hey, Baikadjinn, WWWAAAZZZAAAPP!! You know what? just forget about convincing these people that anime is cool. They're not gonna change their minds. Especially el mojon de Leandro. Leandro should just go mind his own business. He just came out of nowhere and said, "I don't care". WE KNOW YOU DON'T CARE, SO BUTT OUT!!! He doesn't even give us a good argument, like Jason does! ^_^! You know why he hates anime? Because he just does! Anime is not for him. There's something special that we see in anime that he just doesn't see. He doesn't feel the same way we do. I don't know why he watched anime when he was little if he didn't like it. He wasn't forced to watch it or anything. What an idiot. Argue with Jason. He's more fun to argue with. Leandro no sirve. Shiva and I and everyone else will back you up!! ^_^

Sniff. My article taking a life of its own. My little baby has grown up so fast. Who would've guessed?

WE KNOW YOU DON'T CARE, SO BUTT OUT!!!

So why are you here, again?

leandro

To Jason --> Does this mean u leaving? damn. Does that mean you're not an obsessed anime fan?

L: The fact remains: I don't care

G: and you know what: Me neither.

L: So why are you here, again?

G: Me? Why are YOU here? aren't you supposed to be busy with your life?

Que Sangano. He comes to argue with us after like a million posts. Json had to do all the arguing for him. Buen mojon.

Que Sangano. He comes to argue with us after like a million posts.

Each one of the pro posts proves my point.
Did you read the article? :)

leandro

Well, I must say. Since Jason isn't here to defend you, I guess you're going to defend yourself now, huh? Tu quiere mambo? 'ta bien.

Yeah, I read the article, and to my understanding, you're saying that anime and its fans suck, and that's that. Well, if that's your way of thinking, fine. The way you think is: anime sucks and it's a fact.

Ok then. Now I'm applying your way of thinking to me, now. People who hate anime suck, and that's a fact.
Now, I'm just using your way of thinking, that's all. If people don't like what you like, or see things the way you do, then they suck.

When people post here and say why anime doesn't suck, and you come and say, blah blah blah, I don't care, then we shouldn't care about your stupid article either because it's obvious you're trying to get everyone to think like you, oh and don't come with the "I'm just expressing myself" bullcrap because if it was like that, you would've written it in a diary or something, or talked about it with your friends who also agree with you. You know you want people to flame you, and when they do, you come and say ,"oh, I don't care". When people put articles like that, online, for everyone to see, is because they either want to convert people into thinking their way and diss them on how stupid they are for not agreeing with them, or they just want to hear other people's opinion and discuss things with them. According to you, those who don't agree with you are idiots and those who do aren't.

You don't like the characteristics of anime like the facial expressions, or the stories, characters, philosophy, anything like that that has to do with anime. Well you know what? I DO!! AND I WANT IT TO STAY THAT WAY!! It's like I said before, anime is just not your thing, that's all. Anime isn't for everybody. Those characteristics are what make anime what it is.

You think American cartoons are any better? I grew up watching American cartoons, the opposite of my sister, and there's always been something missing in American cartoons, to me. When I first saw anime, I liked everything about it. I liked the unique stories that I saw, I love the funny facial expressions they make, I even love the dramatic action lines that you hate so much, and what I mainly love is the drawing style. All those characteristics of anime, I love them and always will. Don't get me wrong, I like American cartoons too, but I just prefer anime instead.

You say that we should try to feel what you feel, like if we grow up watching nothing but anime, we can see your point. Well, not everybody thinks like you. My little sister grew up watching A LOT of anime cartoons, and she doesn't hate it like you do. She LOVES it, and always will too. She loves the characteristics of anime, that's her kind of entertainment, her kind of cartoon.

If you think we suck for liking anime, fine. I think you suck for not liking it. I don't think people who don't like anime suck, because they clearly state that that's THEIR opinion, not that it's a fact, but since you say it's a fact that anime and its fans suck, fine then, from my point of view, I think you suck too. Unfortunately for you, I don't see your unique point of view of anime because in my OPINION, NOT FACT, I think anime is super great.

If you think I'm an idiot for sharing my thoughts and defending my interests, and that I'm "proving you right" or whatever, using your stupid psychology, and that I suck for doing it, fine then I suck, and proud of it, buen sucio. I think you suck just as much for stating your..ahem.."fact" and you're also proving to me how ignorant you are. If in your mind, we suck, then in mine YOU suck.

'Nuff said.

He dicho. Caso cerrado.

Leandro said to me: "don't forget that I wrote the article with the sole purpose of baiting people."

Leo: Do you reckon an anti-feminist article would pull in this many comments?

Isn't arguing fun?

I've just re-read the actual article (about time too) and picked up a few things I was too incensed to miss the first time. (This is nothing new of course.)

"However, there is something worse than Anime`. It's the people that love Anime`."

i.e. the people responding to the article obviously like anime to the extent that a TV show is worthy of defense to complete strangers. i.e. They love it.

"It’s unfortunate, however, that once the anime fanatics will find this article, they will start spewing their ill-informed thoughts or just plain hatred. Some people can’t be rational and accept the fact that not everyone will see the world with their same, boring, repeating, unoriginal perspective and will take it as a personal attack. All I have to say is to that is, thanks for proving my point."

People obviously didnt read this line. We must have got up to the start of Leandro dissing obsessed anime fans and then started flaming. If we'd all read the article through to begin with then we wouldn't have needed to suffer humiliation at the hands of Jason.

We proved him right from the beginning.

Damn.

Hey, isha, if he thinks we're idiots for saying what we think, then we're idiots. I don't care. He also said what he thinks, so that makes him an idiot in my book too. He wants support from anti-anime people. See, they're not idiots because they agree with him. He acts as if anime is from the devil or something and he's our "savior". One of the main lines I read was that he hopes some idiot comes flaming him. If it makes him feel better and more secure to think we're proving him right, fine whatever, I don't care.

Well in that case, I should put up an article saying how great anime is and those who don't agree with me are morons. That's what he's saying. You want an idiot in your stupid forum, YOU GOT IT, BUEN MOJON!! All I know is that I'm not an idiot, but if he says I am, hey we're in his world, right? Guess I am. I don't care if I'm proving him right or wrong because he's proving to me how insecure and ignorant he is.

Usually, when you don't like a show, and someone else does, they try to ask you why don't you like it and try to make you see it from their point of view. If you still don't like it, then that thing is just not for you, that's all. Everybody's different, but Leandro is too much of an ignoramus to understand that.

i was an obsessed anime fan before, that was when i was 10 yrs old. 9 years later, i became matured and i seem to become a critic. This made me choosy in anime titles. My definition of anime obsessed people are those people who actually watch even the most degrading anime that ever existed and talks about them. Another thing is that they never end their day without watching or talking about anime. That really sucked and even worse, i experienced it. But as i grow older, i become concentrated on shows where i see what i want or expect to see. it's kinda interesting because people see on tv and movies what they want to see and hear. examples are news and movies where there are bias, racial discriminations and stereotypes. that's one of the psychological theories that i understood. because we do not want the stuff being shown in a tv show or movie, we put them down and even say that they 'suck'. as i make myself away from most anime and anime lovers (still need some of them for personal purposes), my new hobby is playing board games: chess, chinese chess, japanese chess, go, othello, checkers, game of the generals originated from the philippines, etc. i have a collection of those board games. much healthier than watching anime all the time, don't forget that i am still studying which is my top priority in life.

i agree... if someone likes something that others don't, then that's how it's gonna be. That's why i like north america, people don't care what your interests in life are, just the same as my homeland in asia. Just make friends, that's all. We want everyone to live in peace right? there could be arguments and debates like this but the most important thing is that we are still what we are. friends?

Heh. Y e facil. Try living here for a LONG time and you'll see that it's not really like that, unless you live around people who don't care what your interests are. You have to be in style and dress like everybody or else, you're not "in" and stuff like that. People talk, you know. You see peer pressure and stuff like that because they want to change how you think, like SOMEBODY around here, a quien voy a mirar disimuladamente. Anyways, welcome 'nonyms. Sure, we can be friends. No prob. ^_^ So you're from Asia? COOL!! ^_^
I'm Dominican.

>if he thinks we're idiots for saying what we think, >then we're idiots.

Damn Leandro- the power of authority prevails! Is this a secret power? "Observe as you will my uncanny power over they who suck as anime so sucks! MwaHAHAHHAHA!"

>He also said what he thinks, so that
>makes him an idiot in my book too.

Once again Gokugrrl I highly recommend facism for that sort of ideology.

>He acts as if anime is from the devil

Fanaticism, where we get the damn word "fan", is what makes folk into slobbering deviants and violent psychopaths. When a person obsesses they distort themselves.

>he's our "savior".

You are youre only hope. Good luck. As for salvation and savior status: anyone in a pit will see light shining around someone who is not.

>I should put up an article
>saying how great anime is and >those who don't agree with > me are morons.

...but that would be fictitious! ^_^

>All I know is that I'm not an idiot,

That arguement doesnt support your intent. [try "one thing I know..." next time]

[from a former post]
> I will like anime forever and ever and ever.

Oh cmon! Are you so simple that you will not grow? Are you so obsessed that you cannot imagine life w/o it? I personally DONT NEED THESE QUESTIONS ANSWERED but you, Ggrrl, do.

BTW: in referance to Leandro's "ignoramus" quality I want to verify it so can you give me the addy of the website with your articles so that I can compare writing styles?
<3 REVSCRJ

hey, while looking over some missed posts I discovered:

>All people who like cats are stupid, has a resume of cat books, smells like catnip, are ALL losers, etc." Well then I just might be a wee bit offended and say something.

Once I compared anime fanaitcs to shut-ins with 50 cats and a government check.... coincidence?.....

>That's why i like north america,
>people don't care what >your interests in life are,

...or if you are injured, intelligent, poor, suffering, sad, alone, happy, diseased, wise, fat, thin, stupid etc. BUT are you RICH are you PRETTY?

>just the same as my homeland in asia.

God thats depressing.

>We want everyone to live in peace right?

98% of us: the poor folk.

> friends?

Potentially, lets see how things go.
<3 REVSCRJ

ok ok... back to the main topic...

!!! I have the new Linkin Park CD! Meteora! A bunch of rocks in Greece! I love this CD!!!

">I should put up an article
>saying how great anime is and >those who don't agree with >me are morons.

...but that would be fictitious! ^_^"

Actually you could say the same thing about this article.

>>...but that would be fictitious! ^_^"
>Actually you could say the same thing about this article.

Doh! Got me there! Damn logic!
You'll have to excuse me I didnt take my meds today.

[Note to self:
must learn how to express sarcasm better in text]

Actually that was why I used the emoticon of much debate: ^_^, to signify a joke- you know "smiley happy" like. Twist being that said emoticon made Leand-er- "Shiva" into 2+ people, all of his/her friends, Japan and Gokugrrl BUT NOT ME.

BEFORE ANYONE STARTS IN ON IT:
I almost always post in large blurts because I tend to do a lot of other things. Sometimes I dont even see a computer for a week or two, sometimes I sit for hours in front of one. [sarcasm] AND NO IM NOT DEFENSIVE [/sarcasm]

>Heh. Y e facil.

...okay so the internet is multicultural, cool. Its still greek to me. ["spanish" yes yes yes I know- its a figure of speach]

>Try living here for a LONG time
>and you'll see that it's >not really like that, unless >you live around people >who don't care what your >interests are.

...and anime sucks unless it doesnt.

>You have to be in style and dress
>like everybody or else, you're not "in" >and stuff like that.

My point exactly: they dont care what your interests are. They just want them to be theirs. They dont care who you are, they just want to know at a glance where you belong and thus how they should treat you. Its got literally NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, the real you that is.

>People talk, you know.
>You see peer pressure and stuff >like that because they want to change how you think,

Actually "no" they really dont care how you think as long as you keep your mouth shut and act like them.

If I recall, you have a mild distaste for rap?
Do you think every rap fan thinks the same? [rhetorical]

Of course not...at least not when alone. It is only when a group travels in a herd/pack that they simplify their thought and relagate themselves to the group alpha- this is vital for the group to survive [if it is comprised of "average" people] but at the same time it short leashes the individual's growth in exchange for that survival.

>like SOMEBODY around here,

Yeah, where is Shiva anyway?

> a quien voy a mirar disimuladamente.

-no I said "a large shake and 2, T-W-O, orders of fries"

>I'm Dominican.

German-Cherokee for what its worth.
Seems the Germans really had a thing for the Cherokee. America: built on rape, theft, and blood... at least the good old American values are being kept up in todays administration.

<3
"Not really as pissy as I sound, just havent figured out the proper sequence of emoticons to get it across" REVSCRJ

well, you have plenty of points in your article buddy, but that cannot change anime fans from refusing to watch anime. you had your points and the fanatics had theirs. maybe you'd better care about other things besides this issue. by the way, i'm neutral. it's better for me to watch rather than get involved.

hehehe... funny article...

>Try living here for a LONG time
>and you'll see that it's >not really like that, unless >you live around people >who don't care what your >interests are.

...and anime sucks unless it doesnt

huh?

My point exactly: they dont care what your interests are. They just want them(you) to be theirs. They dont care who you are, they just want to know at a glance where you belong and thus how they should treat you. Its got literally NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, the real you that is.

gee, i couldn't undertand this. what i think in this quote is that you have to be involved in a group where they have the same beliefs, interests, etc. so does this mean that if you meet someone that has different interests than what you have, you would do stereotypes and discriminations and stuff? enlighten me with this.

>>...and anime sucks unless it doesnt

>huh?

[damn. Note to self: take meds and try not to use
demonstrative irony, or semantic complexities]

>gee, i couldn't undertand this.

Okay. I am willing to explain.

>what i think in this quote is
>that you have to be involved >in a group where they have the >same beliefs, interests, etc.

Nope. You dont "HAVE" to be involved in a definable group at all. If you do find yourself in genres of people (rappers, anime fans, improv bum kickers etc) you will find that the further your ideas are from theirs WHEN VOICED is directly related to how low the place is on their socio-foodchain.

You'll likely be tempted to say "of course, if we dont think like eachother how will-" STOP RIGHT THERE. All thought is unique. No one has EVER nor will ever walk your path so dont EVER let the Alphas or the basic pack dynamic steer you toward homogeny.

>so does this mean that if you meet someone that has >different interests than what you have, you would do >stereotypes and discriminations and stuff?

Only if those interests were causing them harm insofar as I could evaluate. Otherwise no, I am always happy to meet diverse folk- makes me grow, makes them grow and BOOM the species evolves a little bit.

>enlighten me with this.

If that was unclear, please say so and I will further explain.
<3 REVSCRJ

i just did not understand the first quote, don't worry about it.

'bout the 2nd one. i understand you

i didn't want to be influenced by anime fans by their habitat, but i do watch anime because i appreciate it. appreciating something is different from being obsessed from something right? i appreciate rock, i appreciate rap, r&b, classical, jazz, i appreciate american movies, asian movies, european movies, short films, etc. anyways, i'm not pissed off because of the article, i appreciate all things that exist here on earth. and it is just normal to have pros and cons. that's just how my life goes on. never i would want to hate something or put down something. i will never have peace with that. i'm a sensitive person y'know. maybe that's why i became interested in 'general information' rather than having to say what my favorite subject in school is. (i think i'm getting off-topic)

>appreciating something
>is different from being >obsessed from something right?

As different as Democracy and American government.

>i appreciate rap,

Watch out- playah haters hereabouts.

>i'm not pissed off because of the article,

Good.

>it is just normal to have pros and cons.

as well as prose on CoN

>never i would want to hate

Somethings are worth hate. I left Taoism over this principle.

>i will never have peace with that.

Peace is for perfect times.

>i'm a sensitive person y'know.

Which is why I am not trying to be funny. As I have always said in previous posts "obsession" is what I truly have contempt for. Why? It wastes life. Wastes it. There are 6 billion humans- thats a 6 months worth of seconds. In my opinion a wasted life = a vast amount of vanishing resources shoveled down a usless digestive tube. Harsh? Yes. I feel this way only when looking @ the big picture. This is why I try to help individuals.

Good luck
<3 REVSCRJ

you're doing well your job. thanks for responding.

One of the main lines I read was that he hopes some idiot comes flaming him. If it makes him feel better and more secure to think we're proving him right, fine whatever, I don't care.

That's the spirit!

Well in that case, I should put up an article saying how great anime is and those who don't agree with me are morons.

Only the ones that take the time to post long winded comments. But Jason already covered this pretty much.

If you do want to write an article on why anime` is great and you can do it so that it is cynical, sarcastic, funny or all of the above, I'd be more than happy to run it.

Many of the people that read CoN also contribute to it.

I don't care if I'm proving him right or wrong because he's proving to me how insecure and ignorant he is.

That's highly fascinating. Would you like a coke?

Everybody's different, but Leandro is too much of an ignoramus to understand that.

That's highly fascinating. Would you like a coke?

leandro :)

Try living here for a LONG time and you'll see that it's not really like that, unless you live around people who don't care what your interests are.

Why should they care? And why do you care if they care or not?

You have to be in style and dress like everybody or else, you're not "in" and stuff like that. People talk, you know.

Let them talk. If you're confident and secure with yourself, no matter what they will say you're not going to give a damn. Even if it's some guy dissing anime` on some website you've never heard about.

You see peer pressure and stuff like that because they want to change how you think, like SOMEBODY around here, a quien voy a mirar disimuladamente.

Why do you care what I think?

leandro

Isha:

Do you reckon an anti-feminist article would pull in this many comments?

If it ever gets written, I'm sure it would pull just as many comments. And some of them would be as obsessed to defend something they believe in to a bunch of complete strangers just the same.

It's quite amusing however that of all the articles posted in CoN which cover a variety of subjects, only this one seems to get so much attention. Shame. Jason wrote some pretty brilliant stuff.

Isn't arguing fun?

Why do you think we're here?

leandro :)

well i see anime is evolving as time goes by, episodes reduced to 10-26 episodes which makes about more of less than half a hundred titles released on japan tv. good thing: storyline is clear and the series are worked very hard from music to artstyle. disadvantage: kindly tell me if you have observed them (whoever made this article). there are new artists as well as not only more japanese people but also koreans. but if you think it still sucked (which i know you would do say - whoever is the con here), its ok, just gave you little info about what's happening with anime.

--just a messenger

WOW!! That was NICE, Guiding Light!! NICE!!! Hey, man, if you need some backup, I'm here for ya!! Te Botaste!! ^_^

R: Damn Leandro- the power of authority prevails! Is this a secret power? "Observe as you will my uncanny power over they who suck as anime so sucks! MwaHAHAHHAHA!"

No wonder. You have a superiority complex. No one can with your kinds o' people. A ti no te gana nadie. Contigo no se puede.

R: Oh cmon! Are you so simple that you will not grow? Are you so obsessed that you cannot imagine life w/o it? I personally DONT NEED THESE QUESTIONS ANSWERED but you, Ggrrl, do.

Oh, ok. So your idea of enjoying life is all work and no play. Cool.

...and anime sucks unless it doesnt.

Yeah, it's usually one or the other. You know what? actually, it doesn't.

R: Actually "no" they really dont care how you think as long as you keep your mouth shut and act like them.

Ok. I know better next time.

R: Yeah, where is Shiva anyway?

Gee, I don't know. I think she'll tell you it's Leandro.

R: -no I said "a large shake and 2, T-W-O, orders of fries"

Oh, ok. Hold on a sec. 'ey, Miguel!! El tarado dijo un batido grande con dos ordenes de papas fritas!! Y Rapido!!

L: That's the spirit!

Yup. I'll let you win. For your sake.

L: That's highly fascinating. Would you like a coke?

Nah. Gimme a Sprite.

L: Let them talk. If you're confident and secure with yourself, no matter what they will say you're not going to give a damn. Even if it's some guy dissing anime` on some website you've never heard about.

Por FIN!! Glad to see you agree with me, finally. Try telling that to revshrrr... whatever.

L: Why do you care what I think?

yeah, why do you care what I also think?

I: Isn't arguing fun?
L: Why do you think we're here?

To disagree with you, of course!! We're just idiots trying to have some fun disagreeing with ya!! ^_^

By the way, where's Jason? I MISS HIM!! WWWAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!! *sniff* ^.^ Guess he wasn't kidding....

Okay first off let me just get this out of the way:

N:
"That's why i like north america, people don't care what your interests in life are, just the same as my homeland in asia. "

To which
GokuGirl responds:

"you'll see that it's not really like that, unless you live around people who don't care what your interests are"

Which is very much like saying "You are wrong unless you are right"

Figuring that everyone was attentive enough to get that, I demonstrated it by saying "anime sucks unless it doesnt"

TADA!! You see I can be [twitch] pretty calm about these things.

Onward we move.
[picture the voice of an infomercial sales rep guy]

Le: Many of the people that read CoN also contribute to it.

So lets see what happens when we replace their CoN with new instacon with all naturally flavored cynicisim crystals...

That's highly fascinating. Would you like a coke?
That's highly fascinating. Would you like a coke? That's highly fascinating. Would you like a coke? That's highly fascinating. Would you like a coke?

...I guess SOMEthings just cant be scraped off the floor and freeze dried for shipping! Thats why in my home we only serve 100% pure CoN!

ISHA: Do you reckon an anti-feminist article would pull in this many comments?

No. They have a lot to do (protesting, cooking, writing congressmen, makin' babies- you know)

>--just a messenger

and like *that* he vanished leaving our heros looking goofy and angry at the same time! Obviously GokuGrrl knew something as a large droplet of water inexplicably hung in the infront of her now froglike mouth.

>No wonder. You have a superiority complex. No one can with your kinds o' people.

Im sorry am I interfering with your superiority complex? Or did you omit something in that sentance? Superiority complex? Not at all. I dont know what you do aside from hate rap, mill about amongst the "clones" of NY, and watch anime. I hope you do more. I assume you must. I do. So at least along those lines, personally speaking, I have grounds for one- but know that there is really nothing but my own existance that I can ever truly be certain of.

>A ti no te gana nadie. Contigo no se puede.

80 naughty gonna nod me? What? Con Tea no sea weed? NO-
I JUST WANT "a large shake and 2, T-W-O, orders of fries"

>Oh, ok. So your idea of enjoying life is all work and no play. Cool.

Good attitude about it but where did I give you that impression?

>>Yeah, where is Shiva anyway?
>Gee, I don't know. I think she'll tell you it's Leandro.

Damnit I knew they were the same person!

>Hold on a sec. 'ey, Miguel!! El tarado dijo un batido grande con dos ordenes de papas >fritas!! Y Rapido!!

[steps back and trys to see whether any of that meant "Hey mike spit in this guy's shake"]

>Try telling that to revshrrr... whatever.

Im sorry what? I was watching that guy so he would mess with my food I missed that.

>yeah, why do you care what I also think?

Coz you are unique and therefore
have a piece of the puzzle no one else does

AND I'LL BE GODDAMNED
IF I DONT GET IT FROM YOU !!! <3 REVSCRJ

I'm not sure if it got across right but "Isn't arguing fun?" was meant to be rhetorical (is that the right word in the right context? In any case it was more of a statement than a question).

Amendment: Isn't arguing fun? ^_^

*isha must learn to use emoticons*

I'm here....quick take it all in. I know that many of you are shorting out without your daily dose of Shiva. It's all good now. LOL

I'm from the northeast and up until, oh MONDAY, it has been winter here. Snow, cold, snow, and more cold. Monday it turned into spring! So for these past three days I have been doing some much needed yardwork and enjoying the outdoors. You should all do that too...well after you read my post that is. ^_~

I read all the posts that have happened since I last posted, and all I want to say is...Jesus christ...WTF? I ended up reading everything like eight times because some people thought it was cool to quote everyone else's posts seventeen times over again. So by the time I got to the bottom where it said, "Post a Comment" I forgot what the hell any of you were talking about.

LOL.

Leo thinks anime and anime fans sucks. This will never change. *sigh* Don't bother tring to change him. It's people with unique attitudes, like himself, that make this world so colorful

Whomever took my cat comment, (I'm not looking it up, I'm lazy) is a moron really. Anime Fans and Government Dependant Shut-Ins...I see the juxtaposition. It's very called for and very logical. Btw, before you start making fun of people who don't really leave their house and rely on the Government to help them out because they just might be disabled...think that just maybe, there might be some of use who have family or friends that are in just such a situation. Believe it or not, most disabled people would actually prefere not being disabled you asshole! Do you really think that anyone in their right mind would like to lose the use of their legs, choose to be blind and never see the beautiful things in the world, suffer from MS, Fibromyalgia, CFS, or any other debiltating disease? I think not you worthless piece of crap.

Hi Gokugirl!

Alright, I'm done, until provoked. LOL. ^_^

>I ended up reading everything like eight times because >some people thought it was cool to quote

Hmmm... seems to flow more sensically for me when folk format like this. I do, however, read and write a lot.

>Whomever took my cat comment,

ME ME ME ME!

>is a moron really.

Rather than simply react to that, would you care to explain why as your post did not.

Since you've professed laziness I clicked
"all comments" [ctrl f] "cats" for you.

The comparison I originally had made was that:

"...the fanatical among them, like all fanatics, are mislead to the degree that they warp like a shut-in with 50 cats and a government check"

I hold to this. Im actually agreeing with you here. You say that no one in their right mind would choose to loose the use of their legs. I agree.

Many people on the other hand will spend 6+ hours a day parked in front of a tv set, then another 8 at their desk at work, and yet another 8 asleep leaving them effectively in the same boat but by choice as opposed to circumstance.

I have much pity for those fucked over by disease: my uncle died of cancer, my grandmother as well, another uncle is currently dieing of aids and my mother has wegners disease which is incurable.

>Anime Fans and Government Dependant Shut-Ins...

rephrase that to anime "fanatics"

>It's very called for and very logical.

See... SOMEHOW I KNOW that is sarcasm, and yet were I to say that someone would thank me for supporting their arguement.

>Btw, before you start making fun
>of people who don't really >leave their house and

I'm cutting you some slack coz obviously you have pain over this. I didnt make fun of them. I didnt ridicule the disabled, nor did I slap a baby or kick a puppy. Read the text I wrote not the situation you are trying to weather.

>Believe it or not, most disabled people
>would actually prefere not being >disabled you asshole!

Of the few disabled people I have known or worked with I would only agree in theory as they seem to have entirely rearranged their perspective so that the thought of their being "abnormal"- though glaring- is considered as little as possible. This leads to a state of mind where they dont seem to go "Gee I wish I was born with legs" very often as those that do dont last long.

>Do you really think that anyone
>in their right mind would >like to lose the use of their legs,

Seems that the euro-monarchistic aspiration to slug nature reinterpreted into the American dream has people wanting to be waited on hand and foot, meals prepared for them chores done by servents etc. the hieght of decadence being that one never has to leave one's bed. So I agree with you only in semantic as those folk are not in their right mind.

>choose to be blind

"If thine eyes offend thee pluck them out"
-its not my religion, but there you go.

>I think not you worthless piece of crap.

I think you meant "naught"...
Sorry. Couldnt resist that after the "worthless piece of crap" line. Really tho: I hope that whatever is the crux of your pain is dealt with in a healthy way. Reread what you wrote and remember what you felt. You went from being too lazy to hit ctrl-f to calling me an asshole pretty quickly there. You assembled a meaning that had nothing to do with what I had said in the least [for the record: I was picturing an old lady with herds of cats and lots of boxed magazines tittering and talking gibberish to them]

This kind of pent up pain can turn REAL ugly if you dont give it regular vent. Forewarned. Good luck. Trust me- I have had to deal with a lot of its sort.

<3
REVSCRJ

HEY, SHIVA!! REALLY MISSED YA!! ^_^

You know what? Now I understand why Rejhsfdkfjs hates anime so much. He hates foreign things. Well, no sense in arguing with him. I tell him one thing, and he gets off the subject. Hey revjsflkjfs, I already told Miguel to get you your shake and fries. Gosh! Come ma que un nacio.

R: No. They have a lot to do (protesting, cooking, writing congressmen, makin' babies- you know)

And guys also have a lot to do (Play sports, talk crap, get girls pregnant and then run away, complain about the chores not being done, be waited on hand and foot, put girls down because they think they're the best, stuff like that...)

Leandro!!Gimme my Sprite!!!

Hey, Shiva, are you from NY? 'Cause the same thing happened over here. It snowed not too long ago, and now, it's like a summer day.

And as for revjhslh, I'd give you a piece of the puzzle, but you hate foreign things, so te lo perdiste. sorry. -_-

hmm... res hates foreign things? i guess what he is pointing out here is anime, not foreign things. i like japan very much, very colorful culture, weird city tokyo, nature loving people, and i read that the japanese people treated film as a form of theatre, the united states treated film as a new form of photography, which i obsreved very much (guess i've been talking for myself). so guys, watch it, it's just anime that is the topic here. continue on with the debates guys. don't worry if you guys get offended, you don't even know each other, words are indeed powerful isn't it?

Gokugirl - Hi. No, I am not from NY. I am from the US state that sees the sunrise the first. ^_^ *shakes her head* And...I come back for this...*points down*

To revscjr - When using a phrase such as "Government Dependant Shut-Ins"...that broad term encompases all, from the deranged welfare mongers to the legitmately disabled. Perhaps if you did not want retaliation from someone who has lived a life taking care of disabled parents, then you should have chosen something a bit more specific. My pain and regrets about my past come only when people like yourself run their mouth before their brain has time to process what they are saying.

You claim to have family who are suffering greatly. How would you feel if I made some blasphemous comparsion along the lines of "Serial killers and child rapists are a lot like people with cancer". Perhaps, might you feel a pinch from such a remark considering you've had two family members die from cancer? Now obviously, I don't really think that serial killers, child rapists and people with cancer have a lot in common, it was just an example to show how incredibly far fetched your juxtaposition was. You took two things, two potentially harmful things, that have nothing in common and placed them like they were peanut butter and jelly.

The disabled that I speak of that would not prefere being disabled, are those that were not born with hinderances. Sorry for not being specific. Some people become disabled during their lifetimes, and surely enough, many would wish that they could have their old lives back. And for those born with hinderances, I know they rearrange their lives to live as they can. But, I know that many have sometimes wondered what their lives would be like if they could see/walk/whatnot.

What you pictured and what you wrote were not the same thing. Perhaps if you wish to not have people react negitively to your remarks, YOU (not me, YOU) might want to reread what you write and see how some things might come across in the wrong manner.

I do not need advice from you. I have lived a fine life and sometimes I have pain and sometimes I have regrets, but for the most part, I think not of the things in my past for I have a loving fiancee and a good life now. But when people like you run their mouth most insensitively, it unlocks things that have been dormant for years. I lost my childhood "babysitting" two disabled parents, while trying to attend school and work. Before you tell me you know what it's all about, stop and think, that maybe I do too.

Lastly, if you really do know what it's all about, then maybe you'd choose your words better...

>He hates foreign things.

I was a Taoist...

>I tell him one thing, and he gets off the subject.

Yeah, I do have a habit of seeing life as continuous and interdependant- all in some way part of one subject. You say "1 hour of tv a day" and I say "decades of your life". Forgive my lack of a myopic outlook. :)

>I already told Miguel to get you your shake and fries.

Mmph ish great shanks - !fries!

> Gosh! Come ma que un nacio.

Nachos? Naw this is great thanks.

>And guys also have a lot to do...

Heh- I couldnt resist that comment sorry :)

<3REVSCRJ

Someone wrote:

Leo thinks anime and anime fans sucks. This will never change. *sigh* Don't bother tring to change him. It's people with unique attitudes, like himself, that make this world so colorful

Someone else wrote:

You see peer pressure and stuff like that because they want to change how you think, like SOMEBODY around here

Or is that hypocrisy?

leandro :)

you've been a taoist? is there any difference between that, buddhism, shinto and confucian? soory if got off topic...

anyways. it's enjoying here in this forum.
hope it doesn't end. (i appreciate anime like any other films that existed and that's that) by the way, 'bout what i read, in the history of film, the americans treated it as a new form of photography which led to such things like silent movies, pantomime films, charlie chaplin, etc. japan treated film in their own history of film as a new form of theatre. film showed there were not accompanied with piano music or some sort but by live narration. it was hard at that time. luckily, the "talkies" era started where movies have sound and characters can be heard talking. and so disney came up with the first animation in the 30's and japan with their own animation in the 60's. people who love film very much (such as me) do a lot of researches on these and kept stuck on my head for years. nice info given eh? i never became obsessed with one kind of movie, because there are plenty of them, and cartoons like disney, w.b., anime, they all deserve to be included in my list of great films. but that's just the USA and Japan, i still know the european and chinese films and my fav philippine movies (movies of my homeland). [really sorry for being off-topic, it always happen to me in every forum i visit]

First: I express condolences for your childhood lost, the more I talk to folk the more I find that it is the rare person who had a nontraumatic childhood and those that didnt are incapacitaded as adults by it. Still, it is a shame that there is so much suffer so constant throughout the world at any given moment.

>"Government Dependant Shut-Ins"...

Where I grew up (central california) a shut in was always a derogatory referance used by the police to refer to a breed of person that just decides to stay inside for fear of the outside world or inability to deal with it, forgive my dialect.
The disabled who are unable to leave home I have always refered to as "bedridden" or "...y'know Chuck, the guy who cant walk." though unfortunately that does point out the disabled trait over others, it certainly saves time. >that broad term encompases all, from the deranged welfare mongers to the legitmately disabled. Perhaps if you did not want retaliation from someone who has lived a life taking care of disabled parents, then you should have chosen something a bit more specific. My pain and regrets about my past come only when people like yourself run their mouth before their brain has time to process what they are saying.

>"Serial killers and child rapists are a lot like people with cancer".

I would listen to your arguement w/o anger as best as I could. For instance, in the above example if you were saying that they had a thing in them that was eating them alive, I would agree and point out that your metaphor was a little odd.

>how incredibly far fetched your juxtaposition was.

I still hold to it (as now hopefully revised as to no to include the disabled :] ). Fanaticism warps one by cutting off so many other avenues of growth, just like when a person shuts themsevles off from outside input and decides that 50 cats and a tv are enough. Sure its a tasteless metaphor with utter disregard for the crippling weakness [<-- not to offend the legless] of some folks, but I hold it to be true IMO.

>Some people become disabled during their lifetimes,

Yes, these are tragic and their loss is often unbearable.

>if you wish to not have people react negitively to your remarks,

I dunno, a little vaugery and all of the sudden a debate about something as innocuous as anime turns to this- I think that is truly beautiful.

>I do not need advice from you.

I still will likely give it, its a speach mannerism. I speak what I think is right or what I would do etc. presuming that you have the individuality to consider its validity for yourself. Im not telling you what to do: that would be futile. I am trying to pass off the things that I have found to other and if they are applicable with their situation then perhaps suffering is averted. Sorry again for the dialect.

>I think not of the things in my past

[not to give advice or anything]
Learn from your trauma and then pass on what you can so that those who also go through similar situations may bear them as less traumatic.

>it unlocks things that have been dormant for years.

Then the pain has not been processed and remains- beware.

>Before you tell me you know what it's all about,
>stop and think, that maybe I do too.

I dont know what its all about.
If you do, congrats.

There is a statemnt made in many'a science class:
"The more you know the more you know there is to know"

The ramification of this is:
only a fool [or perhaps a diety] thinks they got it all. <3 REVSCRJ

>you've been a taoist? is there any difference between that, buddhism,

A religious dichotomy that shares many Taoist principles.

>shinto

Not certain

>and confucian?

Taoism: attain enlightenment through a pure existance that emulates natural form

Confucian: attain enlightenment through ritual and focus to the highest degree.

>soory if got off topic...

S'okay- I kept it short. revscrj@cloudfactory.org if you'd like further discussion on this.

<3
REVSCRJ

>Or is that hypocrisy?

Color.
:)

<3
REV.Sean Conrad Rothstein-Jacobson or REVSCRJ

I'm too lazy to read all the comments that have been posted, but it seems that the people who don't like anime have been exposed to bad anime with just senseless action or are like Sailormoon. Just give The Wings of Honneamise, Jin-Roh, or Ranma 1/2 a try. There are no "aliens with bad fashion", "nonsense", "people with some silly destiny", or "just a bunch of senseless violence". You may be surprised how good they are.

Someone's gotta point, ya know. But like I said before, everyone has their own taste of things, like Sailor Moon, for example. Many people say that Sailor Moon gives anime a bad name. I know there are a lot of people who aren't crazy about Sailor Moon, but I love Sailor Moon and I enjoy it a lot, even if people say it's repetitive and stuff like that, I still like it.

Sailor Moon isn't the type of anime that's for everyone, just like everything else. There's probably a lot of people who like Cowboy Bebop, and that's one anime I don't like at all. The animes that have to do with bounty hunters and stuff like that, I'm not too crazy about, or actually, I don't really like them at all sometimes, but there's probably a lot of people who do like those kinds of animes, so I don't think there's such a thing as good and bad anime. It's just the category or type of anime that people like is the one for them, that's all.

And as for revskjlesjklf, you know what? Since he can't diss me back in Spanish, like Leandro does, he talks to me about food. Is that the CORNIEST thing in the world or what? He says he's "Greek". Probably 'cause of his 7th cousin or something. He doesn't diss me back in Greek. Try harder next time, revsklfjljsdfj, 'cause you really suck with those disses. That didn't even tickle. Feh. Talking to me about nachos. Gimme the money and I'll shove them down your throat now that you asked for it.

^_^Te callas, TE CALLAS!! I meant German, GERMAN!!!!! He can't diss me back in German!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! That was funny ^_^ ^_^ ^_^!!!

I haven't been keeping up with this board much lately, but I want to add that I feel that the seeminingly diminishing Japanese cartoon phenomenon is sheer novelty. Peace out.

>...he can't diss me back in Spanish,
>...talks to me about food. >Is that the CORNIEST thing in the world or what?

Corn? Por favor!
Nien. As far as Im concerned its an english forum, so the gotterfunken that makes this also so je ne se quois should be expressed in English. As for dis-ing you? You took those as dises? :) I was making light of statements meant to be unitelligible- Im assuming your English is good enough to translate them? por favor = please Nien = no Gotterfunken = divine spark dis-ing= disrespecting

>Talking to me about nachos.
Well, its only fair one nonsequiter remark for another. Pitch nonsense my way (which to one who does not speak the language, it appears) and I'll give you something back from it that is at least an attempt at humor. But lets just say debating semantics etc in more than one language es muy abburito. [...is very boring] ^.^

<3
REVSCRJ

Ps: tell Miguel that was f*cking great!

CCCCCCAAAAAAAAAIIIIIISSSSSSSTTTTTEEEE!!!!! caiste, caiste!!! MWAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaaa!! Caiste!! Caiste!! Pero Caiste!! (Johnny Ventura song) Hahaha. You fell for it! That's what it means, ok, before you start talking about a cast or however it is that you read spanish words. I see you took the time to talk to me in another language. Gotta stick to your origins. ^_^

>You fell for it!

Fell for what? I could dis you in sanskrit if the keyboard had the characters but I might as well just say "dj,sgfacbsudgf!!" for all the differance it makes.

>That's what it means, ok, before
>you start talking about a cast or >however it is that you read spanish words.

I dont read Spanish. Its not about caste (!!) its about making meaning. If I knew morse code what would you think if I was to just randomly go:
----. --. .... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! SO THERE!

Me? I disregard it or make a joke about it.
Dont mean it doesnt make sense to those that know it.

>I see you took the time to talk to me in another language.

...to show that its not because I cant but because expressing an understandable-to-the-target-meaning is BY FAR more important to me.

> Gotta stick to your origins. ^_^

Gotta grow past em: thats how culture developes. Tradditionalists make the drag-effect on evolution.
<3 REVSCRJ [i][/i]... oops forgot about that...

who ever wrote that article is close minded pre judging cunt. fuck you, fuck your mom, and fuck your dad for fucking your mom and having you, you dumb cunt. fuck your fruity site, too.

Are you really "German"? Because if I was German, or whatever, I'd want to learn at least how that culture works out because it's my roots, my origin, ya know.^_^

When I speak too much english, there are just some words that I just have to say in spanish because I express myself better like that, and to me, the best way to put it is like that. *SIGH* If it makes you feel better, I'll put the definitions next to them. You're gonna come outta here talking spanish!! ^_^

You know how some expressions are better said in their original language because it doesn't sound as cool translated.

[I]Are you really "German"? [/I]

Ha, that actually made me vocally bust up :)
Now why would I lie about that?

[i]Because if I was German...[/i]

I know about Germany, the Teutonic Knights, etc- but you said STICK to em. There is a big differance between knowing from whence you came and living there.

[i]some words ... I ...say in spanish because I express myself better[/i]

Hey, see now there is a valid reason.
I understand. I wont understand when you use it but if you...

[i]put the definitions next to them.[/i]

You will at the very least avoid more referances to Miquel and his badass fries.

[i] You're gonna come outta here talking spanish!! ^_^[/i]

Always willing to learn what I can.

[i]because it doesn't sound as cool translated.[/i]

French:
"je ne se quios" English: "I dunno" <3 REVSCRJ

>You're gonna come outta here talking spanish

...but apparently not typing code.

:)
<3 REVSCRJ

How come any time I don't post for a few days, people question where I am? LOL. Guys...some of us turn our computers off and do other things. (Before you flame me, I am not incinuating that none of you do. K?)

I spent this weekend helping some of my bestest pals move into their new abode, and with summer and many art shows on the way, Shiva's ramblings shall not be daily...*sighs* You all shall have to manage.

To Res(I'm too lazy to remember your name fully...gah, make it easier.) I'm not gonna bitch, moan, argue, anything anymore with you about "Government Dependant Shut-Ins". This is an anti-anime forum. Contribute an article about your theory to CoN and just maybe you'll see me rambling in your column. Probably not, but just maybe...LOL

dont let other people diss anime without a reason...
dont let other people like anime without a reason...

Shiva sez: Guys...some of us turn our computers off and do other things.

I heard a rumor about there being stuff to do when the computer is off, but this whole "computer off" concept is kinda hard for me to follow...

I don't have many thing to talk here but...

Malaysians still dunno what anime than Pokemon,Digimon,Doraemon,Let's and Go(anime about 4wd mini cars),Beyblade and Hamtaro.I hate all of them.BUT I love matured anime like Gatekeepers,Vandread,Gensomaden Saiyuki,and many of them.I hate Disney's and Nickelodeon's cartoons too because they made Malaysian crazy.I HATE YOU because you offended anime lovers like me(but I never worshipped anime).Have a nice day.

PS:My english sucks.

Actually I have to admit I hate stuff like Beyblades too I mean how they made an anime out of tops is way beyond me. Anyways you speak of mature anime well just because pokemon and stuff like that seems to be a lot more for children it's still just as good as Inu Yasha and Ranma as well as Fushigi Yuugi and Ayashi no Ceres. Heck I consider pokemon and the like to be just as great as Evangelion and Princess Mononoke. Sure mature anime's may have more matured themes such as Angst, Death, Drama, and one heck of a storyline but that doesn't mean that the anime that's considered non mature is bad in fact I'm lucky to just have anime on TV or I might never have gotten into it at all. So in a sense I'm thankful for pokemon, digimon, yugioh, hamtaro, etc

Corny jokes aside I think dubbers do an actual good job (with the exception of card captor sakura) especially when it came to Samurai X Rurouni Kenshin. It has become one of my new favorites and it's actually really good I can see why a lot of people love that anime

ROFL ^_^

I am hoping that was sarcasm...oh please let it be sarcasm. ^_~

You guys definately have some issues.......all I can say is that I love everything about anime and I don't give a damn what any of you think about it!!!!!!! I don't even know how I got this site but I can assure you I will never come back......this is utterly lame. By the way you guys can all go to hell. Anime is the best but obviously you people are too pitiful,ignorant,lame and stupid to realize it!Get a life, jump off of a cliff and go to hell and stay there!!!!! Later morons!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. I really despise all of you................

You people really piss me off. I definately agree with Sango-chan! She's right!I won't come back here again! I don't even know why I bothered. You people disgust me. Be gone! All of you that have a problem with anime seriously need help!!! I suggest you get it while you still have a chance before you become a 100% freak!!!!!!!! Later.......

I really am starting to wonder if this is the problem Jason was always talking about heck maybe he's right maybe fans are too obsessed but at least there are some fans who can just watch anime as a form of entertainment

Personally, I'm ambivalent about anime. I've seen quite a lot of it, and just like anything else, some of it sucks and some of it doesn't.

However, looking over the wreckage of The Great Anime Wars here, I think it's pretty safe to say that there's a lot of people who take it far, far too seriously.

Why should anyboy care that there are people who don't share their taste in something? Name a thing -- anything -- and some people will love it, and some will hate it. Nothing wrong with that.

Are the rabid fans actually so lacking in a sense of self that their entire identities are wrapped up in anime? It seems as if they feel that insulting the cartoons is insulting them personally.

It's amazing.

Well. All I can say is that Guiding Light is totally right. Couldn't have said that better myself. ^_^

As I see it there are many anime's out there that I like, I tolerate, and I just plain hate. Now as for me I like stuff like pokemon, and digimon but not some of the other cones of said shows such as beyblades, medabots, moncoli knights, and monster rancher. I guess it's more personal preference than anything else. What ticks me off though is when someone will just turn down an anime calling it gay whend they hadn't even watched more than 2 seconds of it.

You know I've only seen Sailor Moon and DBZ fans be the best examples of what Jason called the typical obsessive anime fan. Not that it's entirely their fault they just don't seem to want to grow fond of other animes because they're afraid that they'll like it more than their current favorite. For example I like Rurouni Kenshin just as much as I like Ranma and Inu-Yasha. Now Ranma has always been my favorite no questions asked but I don't go putting all other anime down because I have a favorite. I give every anime it's chance and if it's good then I continue watching if it isn't I change the channel and watch something like Dexter's lab or something. This is what kind of happened with Trigun, I've heard people say that it's "as great as Akira" I never saw Akira so I wouldn't know how great that was but as for Trigun indeed it's pretty good but it's not something I'd watch every day.

As for anime fans taking it too far, yeah I really believe that a lot of fans take it too far but this is where I think Aethos made a good argument when he tried to point out that there are anime fans who aren't completely obsessed and can at least act mature to people against his views.

But then again that's just what I think after all...

Jason left? *cries* I didn't even get to say goodbye... I left the Internet for Lent...Yeah, yeah...I'm weird, I know, I know... Oh, well. I can e-mail him if I'm that desperate to talk. Not that I am. You know, the arguments he had with Otacon, Aethos, etc. reminded me of Kenshin's second fight with Soujirou. I won't say how, because that would be a spoiler, but people who have seen the Rurouni Kenshin Kyoto arc will know what I'm talking about. But there are some cool people here still. In spite of all the mean people who post sometimes still...

Are the rabid fans actually so lacking in a sense of self that their entire identities are wrapped up in anime? It seems as if they feel that insulting the cartoons is insulting them personally.

You summed up 410 comments in a few words.

The type of behaviour you saw there is what I mean by anime` fans being unable to discuss their passions rationally.

"the arguments he had with Otacon, Aethos, etc. reminded me of Kenshin's second fight with Soujirou. I won't say how, because that would be a spoiler, but people who have seen the Rurouni Kenshin Kyoto arc will know what I'm talking about."

crud and I probably won't know what you're talking about until they actually show the Kyoto Arc on Toonami especially since they've began the occasional rerun a thon until they buy more episodes of the show. I can't believe that they actually stopped running new episodes right at the beginning of it too. *sigh* ah well I'm too busy to watch tv much anyways what with college and all

???

And once again, Guiding Light is right as usual. He always says exactly what I wanna say!! Guess I have nothing else to say. ^_^

I didn't know you hadn't see the Kyoto arc. I forgot that some people only get to see it on Cartoon Network. I'm really sorry about that.

Tis ok, you didn't know. I'm sorry if I souned mean or rude in my last message. Probably because I'm mad at Cartoon Network for starting reruns right at the best part of the show and knowing that it will take them till fall to get any new episodes. But ah well I can wait patiently till then I've got lots I can do to keep me preoccupied

You guys waste all your time voicing your NEGATIVE
thoughts,opinions and reviews on anime???????? YOUR the idiots!!!! If you hate it so much that you spend all your time sharing your opinions with other bitches & bastards just like you, YOUR the obsessive ones, YOUR the ones who worship arrogance like its a religion, and you make it sound like anime otakus do nothing but sit around and watch anime, but, in reality, all YOU people have to do is go expressing your wrong opinions, with no outside life!!!!!! You see, these things called 'human beings' have compassion and acceptance!!!!!!!! Go get some, and see that anime is'nt a bunch of crap & BULLSHIT, like you!!!!!! But, then again, you could'nt see emotion and good qualities, because, you have to HAVE THEM to recognize them!!!!!!!!! Anyway, all that said, I'LL SAY: GO TO HELL, ALL A'YA!!!!!! (BET YOUR PARENTS ARE NO PRIZE, EITHER!!!!! Y'know,never owned a brush or shampoo, OR clean lungs-or souls. N'uff said...

Now this is funny it kinda depicts the average otaku overly obsessive anime fan

http://ghastly.keenspace.com/comics/20020106.jpg

http://ghastly.keenspace.com/comics/20011014.jpg

I found them on another anime message board and I thought they be amusing so I thought I'd share the laughter and all that stuff

One of the members of Pokemopolis wrote this and I thought you'd be interested to hear this

Hardcore otaku-types are simply an extension of the horror that is the SF/F 'fanboy'. In short, it's pathological behavior. I don't think simply liking anime is a requisite in of itself for being an otaku...no, you have to be WAY more around the bend for that. As in "get the thorazine"-type around the bend.

A good "antidote" to otaku and fanboy-type behavior that I've found is a bit of anime + documentary footage called "Otaku no video". Half of this is an anime about a perfectly normal guy who gets sucked into otaku-dom by his goofy pathological friends, who then starts a company making otaku things, which runs into the ground, then they start another, and so on. Bookending the segments of this are clips of interviews with ACTUAL otaku types, such as a guy with an addiction to hentai computer games, or a guy who sneaks into animation studios and steals cels, and then makes a living selling these, and so on. While the anime segments might be a bit more sympathetic to the otaku mindset (they are, supposedly, a bit of a spoof on how the anime studio Gainax was started), the interviews definitely are NOT.

So, if you can catch any otaku, tie 'em down and make 'em watch this, "Clockwork Orange"-style. They may thank you later.

On the other hand, there's nothing really wrong with being serious about anime you like...as long as you're not using a massive segment of your life to inflict your views on others with a relentless and psychotic fury (coughcoughPrincecoughJockowheeze). Here's an example of what I mean:

A) You contact the various Pokemon powers that be demanding that they go back and fix the first movie because OMFG IT SUXX0RZ!!!!11111

versus

B) You and several other people contact the various Pokemon powers that be and suggest that a 'restored' version of the first movie get done because it may go some distance toward restoring the critical credibility the recent and improved movies deserve so that they can get a proper audience and, therefore, improved commercial viability.

Now, A is how otaku think. B is how sensible people who enjoy certain anime think. While they might accomplish the same end goal (although A is far more likely to be ignored than B, hands down), the rational thought needed to form a real discussion with actual people in the real world is only present in example B. Example A won't get you anything except confused looks, or worse.

Pokemopolis, likewise, fits into 'example B'...as it looks at Pokemon with a critical and often (VERY often) satirical eye that otaku just can't deal with. The "OMG JESI N JAMZ R IN LURVE KAAAAAAWAAAIIIIIIIIII!!!!1111" sites are the 'example A' crowd. They pick fights with us because "OMG U R SO RONG JAMZ IZ NO GEY!!!!11" and we meet those fights because, let's face it, it's funny to give people who think like that aneurysms, irrespective of the subject in question.

So rest assured, fine Dodgers...you can dig Pokemon all you want, to your hearts' content, because your heads are all in the right place. Usually. Sort of.

my dick hurts, i hate applesauce, its for bitches and only the L33T know that. because that's what anime fans or otakus are like, bitches. ho ass cunt licking bitches. any fans of anything suck, comics, sports, cartoons, scott baio. its cool if you like it, but to pay outrageous prices and suck on their hard nipples for something i can download or steal is stupid. my dick stopped hurting now my balls hurt. my pants have sticky spots and bllod in them.

That you're some porn fan or somethin?

I was just joking with you, I didn't mean that porn fan thing seriously you know. Sorry

Frankly, I don't. Okay, so the animation is great, but forget it when it comes to a story line. Dragontesticle Z, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, long stories, with action and philosophy that are supposed to strike in our hearts (or in our lower intestines as we sit on the can). They sit there and complain that the americanized version just doesn't cut it, and that dubbing ruins the story. Frankly it doesn't make a difference. It's not like their eyes grow smaller and their brains bigger

Well compare I mesn there are ones that have a moving storyline. Such as Rurouni Kenshin. The story mainly revolves around Kenshin Himura also known as the legendary man slayer Hitokiri Battousai who helped paved the way for the Meiji era. He regrets all the senseless slaughter he did after he accidently kills his one true love Tomoe and becomes a Rurouni (Wanderer to be more precise.) After ten years of wandering protecting people with his reverse blade sword he meets a girl by the name of Kaoru Kamiya who teaches the Kamiya Kessan style of swordsmanship which is basically fighting without senseless slaughter. Through the course of the anime other characters are brought in such as Yahiko, son of a samurai turned thief. He soon comes to the Kamiya dojo and is taught the Kamiya Kessan style but mainly see's Kenshin as a role model as well as a father figure so he works to become just like Kenshin. There's Sanosuke last of the Sekihora squad. The Sekihora fought for equality among the rich and working class but they were framed by the imperialists and killed off being claimed as the false army. Sanosuke escaped thanks to his mentor and father figure Captain Sagara. Sanosuke hated the impearialists thinking they were all killers and assumed his role as a fighter for hire until the day he fought Kenshin. He was determined to destroy Kenshin and get revenge for the death of the Sekihora members but Kenshin's peaceful attitude made Sanosuke change his mind about Kenshin and he became a trusted friend and ally to the Kamiya dojo even if he is a freeloader.

There are other people involved in the story too but that is the main history of the characters. You can go here for more information

http://www.ex.org/4.1/07-feature_ruroken_chars.html

I didn't post for a while, because everyone has been repeating themselves for weeks...plus I had college and reading the messages was just fine.

I'm actually near the end of my finals at my college. But I did try to keep up

Do me a favor and compare Spirited Away to Ed Edd and Eddy.

Anime is so dumb. I like to watch stuff like the rugrats. Anime copied the rugrats you know. Your dumb.

Isaw this epesode off salor moon ans it was dum. salor moon is too good. Its dum

The only good anims is hamtaro. aniem is not smart.

Once this aniem fan yelled at me for no reasom. anime fans are mean.

Like we all can't tell that those last four posts are from the exact same person.

As for the comparison of Spirited Away to Ed, Edd, and Eddy......well I haven't seen spirited away yet but I'm sure Spirited away doesn't have anything to do with Buttered toast, jawbreakers, and Eddy's many failed attempt scams

Subject: (none)
By: Blah Time: May 11, 2003 11:32 AM CDT/CEST 1552 Do me a favor and compare Spirited Away to Ed Edd and Eddy.

I'm not going to since SA is a movie and 3D is a show, both have their own unique way of getting people to watch them and both have a style of animation that works with them. I don't watch Japanese and American Animation to see which is better, I watch it because I like Animation.

Plus I find Hayao Miyazaki work boring. Its understandable, nicely done, beautiful, I get the symbolism etc etc but it lacks things. And falls flat near the end...EX Grave of Fireflies (reviewed) is way over rated.

EXample, why not compare Walt Disney's Fantasia to DBZ?

Whatever makes you feel better, Johnny Boy.

(How in the HELL did Anime copy off the Rugrats?? but, then again *SIGH* I'd say that Sailor Moon copied off Hey Arnold to make myself feel better too if I hated anime.)

Que muñequito ma FEO, Dios Mio!!!

Hey, nameless, don't say sorry to that porno fan, because I'm not!! He says that all fans of anything suck, right? So I guess he falls into that category too. We all suck just as much as he does. Just by the way he talks, you could tell he's a porno FAN. He's masturbated so much watching so much porno and giving him cancer, thus giving him the name cancerous because his balls are always hurting and stuff. Why doesn't that ignoramus go to a doctor and get his balls checked or something instead of talking so much bullcrap. That's probably where his brain is, if he has one that is, and that's why he can't think.

What? were you expecting me to say think straight? No, not think at ALL!! Y ven a decirme que no!!! Buen SUCIO!! >_<

Miguel!!

Hola!! [unfortunately I pronounce it "hoe-la"]
Como [like "perry como"] estas?! ["ess-taz"]

Dont got time to talk-
I just dropped by for a churro and Dos [like "MS"] equis [ek-wiss] Gracias [grassy-ass]!!

Leaves resteraunt falsely feeling both multicultural and bilingual.
:-) <3 REVSCRJ

You guys aren't even tlaking about Anime anymore. What happened to all the pointless bitching!? Oh wait...

[ Not to be confused w/ "Hey Micky" by Toni Basil ]

I'd add on more catagory, or, that is a qualifier state that can make one division appear like one of the others: "The Dupe" state. A dupe can come in many shapes and sizes from the high minded to the lowbrow (which physically is really only a few inches of differance) and they will have latched on to something that they SO WANT TO BE TRUE they will actually believe that it is. No great leap for the idiots. All in a days work for the hypocrite. The funny guy doesnt have a solid grasp on reality (which is why they are so "funny") so again: the duped state isnt a whole lot different than say the "enthusiastic" state. The intelligent, on the other hand, have to overcome so much in order to commit that desired truth into belief that they turn into monsters. Look at the catholic church for instance. How long did the Holy Roman Empire go on? It wasnt that they were stupid (though they certainly were hypocrites)- it takes a bit of know-how to dominate a world for that long. They were duped.

Likewise an idiot might memorize a joke book and SEEM like a funny guy because they see the funny guy as occupying a higher place on the social food chain. They are correct in thinking that. Unfortunately they are only doning a facade and still, despite appearences, remain an idiot (debatably a yet more idiotic one) They are self duped.

Dupes make the roots of troops for groups whose broods have accrued a rude sum of unbecomming attention.

Good lord
"Hey Micky" is a really stupid song. <3 REVSCRJ

Date: 06/28/2002
From: MartianTripod

While not much anime hits the mainstream radar screen, at least what does is of somewhat high quality.

I got into anime around 18 years ago and found it refreshing, but after seeing the same old plots run over and over and the japanese mega-obsession with pre-teen girls, I lost interest. I haven't really seen anything to change my mind.

I takes something special to get me interested now.
It's too bad that the japanese aren't growing animation as an art form. Instead they seem intent on deconstructing it (low low frame rates) simple characters all speak of cost-cutting and don't. The only place they have left to go is into "Clutch Cargo" territory (only thing moving on screen is a pair of lips on top of cartoon character).

You know, while we're on the subject of anime...What do you all think of manga? I love manga, even more so than anime. I mean, think about it. Manga is so much more convenient. ^_^ I like the manga Sailor Moon the best. I have lots of other manga, though.

especially Ranma 1/2 and Inu-Yasha

I wanted to know, how many post in "Anime Sucks" to this point- are here?

Subject: Guiding Light
By: check this statement out Time: May 15, 2003 6:31 AM CDT/CEST 1599

Date: 06/28/2002 From: MartianTripod I got into anime around 18 years ago and found it refreshing, but after seeing the same old plots run over and over and the japanese mega-obsession with pre-teen girls, I lost interest. I haven't really seen anything to change my mind. I takes something special to get me interested now. It's too bad that the japanese aren't growing animation as an art form. Instead they seem intent on deconstructing it (low low frame rates) simple characters all speak of cost-cutting and don't. The only place they have left to go is into "Clutch Cargo" territory (only thing moving on screen is a pair of lips on top of cartoon character).

I say that has to be a very logical statement, and it was phrased nicely. Lol, even though I have been saying this...just never posted it in that way-
This anime review site...I think its called THEM, gave this anime FCLC (?) a bad review, and they said they got a lot of hate mail ::rolls eyes:: for what? Just because they didn't like the series...it seems like people expect japanime to get good reviews ALL the time because its japanime.

Unn anyway...I collect American and Japanese comics...
So far its Chobits, Kodocha, CCS and Love Hina...even though I think that one is getting way to repeative. American wise, Jim Balents Tarot witch of the black rose, usually anything by Vertigo press, Ninja HS, Neotopia...and a lot of random stuff.

I wanted to know, how many post in "Anime Sucks" to this point- are here?

Four hundred forty-three, including this one.

At the bottom, after the last comment it will now say:

3 comments of 443 found

leandro

Weird...that part didn't seem to load for me...ACK curse my crappy computer! ::kicks:: I also still get a cannot when I comment, but it usually works when I click back or do it later.
thanks

KittD, can you kindly use the Contact form, e-mail me and we can discuss the problems you're having? This way I can ask you a whole bunch of questions that will help me solve the issues you're having? Thanks.

The same goes to everyone that has complained but never used the contact form to help me understand what exactly the problem is.

leandro

You anime fans make me sick. I would love to set up a gattling gun in front of one of your retarded conventions and shoots you all to tiny pieces as you walk out. If i ever see one of you fags in my neighborhood i will get a baseball bat with nails and rusted barbed wire and ram it down your cornhole. No one gives a fuck about Ichiro or however the fuck you spell your shitty ass character names. ... The Kiwis will reign supreme over all of you... FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE!!! ( Go New Zealand! )

Cool. Tell me where you live so I can rent a bazooka and stick it up your butt and shoot it while I interrupt you from your daily activities (Sucking Gorilla's you know). I'm gonna raise my AT field. ^_^

Baboso del Diablo.

Alright, I hve no idea what the hell lives inside your brain, drinking your cerebral fluids, but god, you people annoy me to no end!

Let's get started on Hentai:
Okay people, you get aroused over cartoon girls? ooookay. Maybe you get aroused over the demon... or the briefcase the women get placed in? Boy, you people sure do have a sick mind. Next time your girlfriend is over, try shoving a giant green thing up your girlfriend's ass then cut her up. See if you get aroused this time (Assuming you have a girlfriend... and not some hairy guy you meet in a chatroom).

Next DBZ;
Okay.... this is the most redundant thing ever! Please, point out to me ANY inner conflicts, ANY character developement, ANY difference between the time when he fought villain #1 and villain #101. All that happens is the hero kills some bad guys, insults the villain for an episode or two, then kills him. Over and over!

Pokemon:
Oooh, you know my cousins over in Europe watch pokemon... the thing is, they are 8 and 12 years old! Uuughhh, cute fuzzy little monsters are for people of that age. If walk to class tomorrow, chances are I'll find some guy humming the theme some and trading his cards with himself. Same with Yuggio and digimon

For all of them:
They are fucking cartoons people! Last time I checked cartoons are for kids, with no exceptions. Want a good action move? Look no further than Bond or Schwarzenegger. Want a comedy (that's actually funny?) Turn on the boob tube and turn the channel to the comedy network or get yourself a movie, there's a great line up, and the humor there isn't corney and/or perverted.

Oh, let's not forget those people who draw their own 'art'.

There's this guy in one of my classes. Real dipshit, he is. Instead of taking notes, he doodles and draws gay pictures of large muscled people with freaky hairdos. Far from realistic...

This also pisses me off because he is under the illusion that he is talented. Hmmm.... must be why he is failing his art classes. He goes up to his stupid friends who like Anime and they are all awed at his creations. Hmmm... maybe this no talent should find himself a book on how to draw hair proportionate to his body!

Well, since you all don't like anime, why watch it and say all those stupid remarks? I mean it, STUPID STUPID STUPID. You really think every show is so lame? Think again.
At least I don't make fun of the anime which has good humour, good honest storylines and NOT hentai. All you people who hate anime...stop voicing it. Never orcurred to me that there are people out there childish enough to accuse anime of being dirty and hateful. This really sucks.

Ok, psychimute. So those are your reasons for not liking anime? Come on now, you should have better reasons for not liking anime like "I just don't like it. period". That's a much better reason than those corny reasons you just mentioned.

P: This also pisses me off because he is under the illusion that he is talented. Hmmm.... must be why he is failing his art classes. He goes up to his stupid friends who like Anime and they are all awed at his creations. Hmmm... maybe this no talent should find himself a book on how to draw hair proportionate to his body!

Oh really? I guess that teacher doesn't know what art is all about then. He or she must have the same ignoramus logic just like you.

In my computer graphics class, I draw anime all the time and everyone, even non-anime fans love my artwork. My art teacher even gave me an A. A friend of my teacher's who is a president of his own company even said that if I need a job in web designing, that he'd love to have me. He saw my anime artwork and he loved it. So you and your moronic teacher should just go and study art all over again because art is a form of expression and when I go to the art galleries in Manhattan, they don't look appealing to me, but if that's the way they draw, that's their art style and form of expression, then let it be that way. You see Picasso's paintings and none of them are in proportion and look messed up. Personally I don't like that art style, but I wouldn't fail my student because that's their art style. Just because you and your teacher don't like an art style doesn't mean that it sucks in general. That's just an opinion. That's just like teachers who don't like a certain writing style and give their student a low grade, and I think that is very unfair.

P:Last time I checked cartoons are for kids, with no exceptions.

Not all cartoons are for kids you closedminded moron. So what do you say about Spawn then? I really don't think little kids should watch the Spawn cartoon series that they used to give on HBO.

I know what your problem is. Youre afraid that everyone will be under the "anime" spell, right? People who truly like anime will like it forever and like it on their own, not because it's a fad because I bet a lot of people like anime now because it's a fad and what's "in" now. It's like a phase they go through, and then it dies until they go into a new phase. You don't understand why people like anime and since you don't, you diss and criticize them just because they're not like you. We make you sick? Well that's just too bad. Then you're just gonna have to put up with us you stupid moron who's too closedminded to see other people's point of view, and don't come telling me that I don't know how you feel because I feel the same way about rap, but I put up with it. Most people like rap because it's also a fad, and you can't compare rap to anime either. They are two totally different things and I have my reasons for disliking rap, but I don't think people are stupid for liking rap. That's just who they are and people who truly like rap like it because of its characteristics that I just don't see, the same way you don't see why we like anime, so stop being such a moron and grow up.

Fecal Jesus & Insane Drunken Englishman

Two people who's interest probably have to do with backyard wrestling and bondage pornography. In reality these are 12 year old kids who think they need to be tough by threatening people and expressing how much they love watching big musclemen hit each other or someone throwing balls to score points or touchdowns even though their form of entertainment sucks just as much if not more. (ie sports fans everywhere)

Psychemute

This person doesn't know anything about anime just like the last analysis. However instead of threats he stereotypes and proclaims how great his own interests are while putting down the interests of others. He thrills at the opportunity at pissing people off and does it so he can laugh and proclaim his greatness. However if any of his interests are insulted he will immediately go on the offensive possibly calling someone a fag for not liking what they like. He seems to think he knows what he's talking about but too bad he truly doesn't such a sad person when you think of it.

Hey psychemute are you one of those people who thinks a toilet with a plunger in it is art? Or how about a soup can? or a bar of soap? Yup I bet you find that as fascinating art.......too bad that people have become ignorant enough to think that's what art really is.

well, it has taken me an hour of solid skim reading, to get to a point where I felt happy skipping the rest, and so I would just like to say this to all the anime supposters out there, doggedly defending their obsession(yes, i call it an obsession, I haven't read all these comments in depth, they all blur after the first 30 minutes) against Jason: YOU WILL NOT WIN.
At least three of you have pitted your wits against him, and he has casually ripped you apart with his words.

Please stop and spare the poor bastards like me who will come across this and feel obliged to read it all.

So........ You agree with Jason? I do.

yes, I agree with Jason. I think his points are valid and that he has a perfect right to take apart anime lovers such as the ones seen above. I just wish he wouldn't take up so much space doing it.

Jason has good points yes but to say that anime fans don't have a chance is being kind of one sided don't you think? It's almost as if you're claiming that Jason should rule over us and tell us what to watch, what to eat, and what music to listen too.

Jason has good points yes but to say that anime fans don't have a chance is being kind of one sided don't you think? It's almost as if you're claiming that Jason should rule over us and tell us what to watch, what to eat, and what music to listen too.

Fortunately, Jason never said any of that.

You guys are so mean to each other! *runs off in tears*

Mean?
Una pequena babosa! !No cajones! :) <3 REVSCRJ

What Jason is trying to say is that when people diss anime, then anime fans get hurt like if it's them that they're dissing, and it's only natural to feel that way because it's like saying that they shouldn't enjoy that type of entertainment and that it's wrong, but at the same time, Jason wants to build a sense of security to anime fans, and not only them, but anyone else who enjoys something a lot.

So in that sense, I agree with Jason because if you like something and someone disses it or makes fun of it, you shouldn't care, and that's what I admire about Leandro. I've read how some people diss Leandro, and he just ignores them or acts as if nothing happened at all, like if he was a wall. People want to see how they impact someone by what they tell them, and when they see nothing happens, they give up. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it does.

I also don't see anything wrong with defending your interests either, but don't overdo it or make yourself look foolish either. I just say what I think and I also like to argue anyway, unless it's with a moron like Smitty, so that's why I keep saying what I think depending on what I read. Jason's just trying to make people feel secure about their interests, and that's why when he sees that people leave the forum and don't answer anymore, he says that they've beaten him. That's like showing "yeah I like this and that, so what? Your thoughts don't matter to me", and that's the same way Leandro thinks, so that's why in a way, Jason's right. I also love the way Guiding Light defends himself, because he always has a right point.

And with rev, he's starting to say some Spanish sentences, and he's using them correctly too. ^_^

No me llames una pequeña babosa. ¿No piensas que puedo leer y hablar español? hehe. It's okay. I no angry, Rev. *smiles* Actually I was trying to say that I was grossed out by...um...I forgot his name...but yeah, what he said was disgusting. Now me, I represent a third kind of anime fan. I'm the little airhead who says stupid things. Yay.

do any of you actually have real jobs?because i can't understand why you'd want to watch anime that relates to everyday life..unless you don't have one.isn't the whole point of anime to escape reality for a while.most of those animes u did list do suck.but what about madbull,akira,guyver,darkstalkers,streetfighter and most importantly bastard!!which are all good escapes from reality.and as for the writer of this crap.how can you condemn anime and the later on reneg and say sailormoon is cool.i think your full of shit dude.

"do any of you actually have real jobs?because i can't understand why you'd want to watch anime that relates to everyday life..unless you don't have one."

I have a life in fact I'm doing volunteer work as well as living out my summer vacation so you're wrong in stating that people who post on message boards don't have lives. Heck I could ask the same about you ya know.

"isn't the whole point of anime to escape reality for a while."

hmmmm I always thought watching anime was a very fun kind of entertainment that amuses me to no end. Truth is any sort of media can be an escape from reality. Heck why do you think games like The Sims are becoming more popular. The point is that anime is a form of entertainment just like music, and just like any tv sitcom as well as any american cartoon.

"most of those animes u did list do suck."

Eh I don't know the only anime on Toonami I never liked was Ronin Warriors and that's because it had the worst story I ever saw. But that's just my opinion, the only reason I hate DBZ is because they never bring in any new plot it's ALWAYS the same thing over and over again no matter which saga it is. And I liked Sailor Moon although Serena's voice really annoyed me and most of the time I'd just be wishing she'd shut her mouth.

"but what about madbull,akira,guyver,darkstalkers,streetfighter and most importantly bastard!!which are all good escapes from reality."

I like Rurouni Kenshin myself which is an anime BASED on a realistic time period. And it is also almost historically accurate as well from reports I read about the REAL Meiji Era. As for the characters, Watsuki Nubohiro the author of Rurouni Kenshin based his characters off of the shinsengumi novels as well as video games like Samurai Spirits.

Ranma 1/2 and Inu Yasha are great because they have good solid characters and an even greater storyline. Inu Yasha for example reminds me of role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons and Ranma 1/2 could be your average teenage sitcom and would probably be better than crap like "Malibu" and stuff like that. Heck to me if Ranma 1/2 could be almost like Save by the bell but with many anime elements in there. Ranma 1/2 you could even think of it as a comedy/soap opera.

I also Love the Excel Saga series because heck I've never laughed so hard in all my life when watching them. Excel Saga is the true pinnicle of comedy goodness since it parodies mainly EVERYTHING.

Lupin III is great because it reminds me of the old school cartoons like Inspector Gadget or even those old spy sitcoms you'll find on TV land. It's fun to see what the characters will do next and the show never get's boring.

"and as for the writer of this crap.how can you condemn anime and the later on reneg and say sailormoon is cool.i think your full of shit dude."

LEIK OMG U R SOOOOO WRIGHT SALOR MOON SUXORS OMFGLOLOLOLOLROFLOLOLOLOL DBZ 0WNZ U!!!!!!1111!!!1!!!1!!

ahem sorry about that couldn't help myself but please come on everyone has their own preference just accept it. I mean I don't care if someone likes Sailor Moon or not and heck if I'd criticize them but there's no reason to call people who like something morons or anything just accept that they like different stuff and that's all I really wanted to say

Psychemute This also pisses me off because he is under the illusion that he is talented. Hmmm.... must be why he is failing his art classes. He goes up to his stupid friends who like Anime and they are all awed at his creations. Hmmm... maybe this no talent should find himself a book on how to draw hair proportionate to his body!

I believe Psychemute never said "you can't like anime cause I don't like it" this is his/her opinion on it and it shouldn't be flamed cause you think you have to defend Japanese till you die.

In terms there is different types of art, and the basica look for japanime characters are idealistic, unproportionate, and unrealistic. Sometimes I like the art and sometimes I don't -cause they all look the same except for a change of eyes and hair color; I don't look up a lot of Japanese art site cause ::shrug:: some of the work is just...repeated, --there are a few-- I can look at fan artwork like American, Canadian, German, Italy etc etc...cause for some reason regardless that people call it "anime style" they put their own style of drawing it into it, look at some American Manga ((ya know gold diggers, battle nun, blue monday, etc))...large eyes, flowing hair, and skinny bodies don't make manga; its what YOU put into it.

TokyoPop said they had to reject when people just used American characters and drawn them with large eyes...doing this is just making a stereotype of how people view manga work. The people who entered could have drawn lets say Scott Summers/Cyclops with large eyes and exaggerated features ((as oppose to his usual look which is comic like: large eyes, perfect hair, clear skin etc lol)), but if you put no reason behind doing it then its just CRAP.

So I do think Psychemute has a point, he doodles and draws gay pictures of large muscled people with freaky hairdos. Far from realistic...

Humm this is harsh of course to all the whiny flamers, but maybe the guy that likes anime is not using his OWN style. I don't know...fanart ((or duplication)) is one thing, but using someone else's style whether it be your favorite artist or not...you should really only use it for inspiration not copy-catting.

Lendo...do ya think this topic should really be locked?

Regardless that people who post they don't like anime, pro animes just keep flaming it up and figure the antis are idiots.

And the anti's AREN'T flaming up the board too and thinking that all the pro anime supporters are gay, stupid, and downright retarded? It does happen on both sides ya know

>And the anti's AREN'T flaming up the board too and thinking that all the pro anime supporters are gay, stupid, and downright retarded? It does happen on both sides ya know

blasphemy!

Jason has good points yes but to say that anime fans don't have a chance is being kind of one sided don't you think? It's almost as if you're claiming that Jason should rule over us and tell us what to watch, what to eat, and what music to listen too.

Fortunately, Jason never said any of that.

Nor, indeed, did I.

>Fortunately, Jason never said any of that.

But that doesn't mean he isn't thinking it.

but he hasn't said it, so you can't use it.

Ok your rant was beyond bad. First of all, spelling helps a lot. It's Pikachu not Pechachoo. ^0^ Second when you make a reference to Hokuto No Ken, please remember things about the show. Don't go rambling on and on. I presume you were writing about Captain Tsubasa. Please remember the persons name because it helps the validity of your argument. When you say something like anime sucks and back it up with nothing, you are plain out stupid. I'd love to see what you watch so I can judge it. I can nitpick better than you can, but I'm not that industrious. What about anime being the only thing on TV?!? Where do you live?!? I'd love to move there, and you can watch the Rugrats from my place.

You mention serialized shows that were mostly targeted for younger viewers. So obviously they will be repitious. Also you were young when viewing these shows, any hidden meaning would go over your head. It probably does now, and that's not my problem. Also I'm not a crazed fan, I don't draw or write fanfics. If some do great. You couldn't tell from my appearance if I was an otaku or not. Write a rant in which you actually have some real issues, otherwise sit down and do whatever the hell makes you happy. No one forced you to watch it.

Who really cares? I've given up in trying. I like anime, case closed. For all the people who wrote long arguments that anime fans have no life, "Why did you write so damn much on a stupid forum?"

The author was throwing stupid WW2 factoids to make a counter argument. Close your encyclopedia and link it to your argument. In short, care about more important stuff. My uncle was killed by a drunk driver, I could care less about why you hate anime (along with a terrible explanation). So do something for the world you raving idiot.

But that doesn't mean he won't say it.

ah, but he hasn't. You can't go on something he might do, until of course, you're the President.

He could say it. And on that note I guess I'll have to become president.

I've lost the plot, so I'm gonna stop now. This was great fun. Bye.

There was a plot? Oh well, bye.

So in that sense, I agree with Jason because if you like something and someone disses it or makes fun of it, you shouldn't care, and that's what I admire about Leandro. I've read how some people diss Leandro, and he just ignores them or acts as if nothing happened at all, like if he was a wall. People want to see how they impact someone by what they tell them, and when they see nothing happens, they give up. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it does.

Goku it seems like you were the most defensive of all when someone dissed anime and fans, you seemed to jump in a say something, when did you have this realization? I must have missed previous post. No flame or dis, but I find this strange. Its like you could have been done this...

Jason converted her, of course! ^_^ Jason's nice. He got me a Happy Meal. *dances*

This article has had 15,851 hits.......

what search do you think it was?

"Sucks"? Or "Anime"? :)
<3 REVSCRJ

>I *so* don't understand this obsession with anime.

Obsession, no matter what its target is, is almost always from the same place: addiction to escapisim. When one's life is either flat or worse and then one comes upon something that "makes it all go away" for a little while there is the tendency to overinduldge in it. For most folk this equates into an "era" of their life that they will pidgeon-hole with the subject (ie: "Oh, that was when I was eating ginko by the pound"). Unfortunately, the difference between an "obsessed" person and an "immersed" is that the obsessed one will establish their self perspective on the subject because, more often than not, the tack of their life is THAT much worse than the immersed-persons and thus the escapism that much more attractive to be in.

BIG DANGER: as muscles atrophy with disuse, so do identities.

>calling in to work sick for the second night in a row

Hmmmmm.... here "crack" and "anime" become interchangable.

>Even thinking about "Cool Devices" makes shivers run

"Madhouse" is one of the more jaw droppingly fucked up stories Ive seen... disturbed... REAL REAL disturbing.

>Are the Japanese trying to increase
>the popularity of statutory rape?

...the only reason that it doesnt happen commonly is laws against it. There is no lack of desire. Do a google search on "young" or "teen" if you want proof of that.

<3
REVSCRJ

Is an "immersed" person escaping?

There are people still posting here? I thought this place would have been dead by now. And well now that I look back on it, Jason has been very right when it comes to the difference between liking something and being obsessed with it.....of course I did have to refuse his offer of a happy meal though. I'm not one for McDonalds

Well if you won't take the happy meal can I have it? I hope there's a cool toy. Last time they ripped me off... bastards... all of them bastards!

As for me I will just stick to smoothies and subway

Alright! All I'm saying is that there better be a toy.

They took out the toy to make more room for chicken nuggets

At first I thought you were joking or something. I decided I better go check, and you were right. Why would they take out the toy? That's the best part of the Happy Meal. It's what makes people happy! I hate McDonald's now. I'm going to Wendy's!

Ok, my friend at McDonald's decided not to give me a toy in the Happy Meal after I told her the story. So now I'm angry and toy-less... and NOT happy. So, they DO still put toys in Happy Meals.

If you need more proof on the horrors of McDonalds read this

http://www.i-mockery.com/visionary/mcterror.asp

All the Happy Meal toys in the world will not bring me back to McDonald's... ever.

I don't think I'll ever eat again.

But it's true I've even heard accounts of stuff happening in local McDonalds things that would make even the restaurants with the worst food seem good.

What about Wendy's? Same thing?

Just McDonalds is the most notable

ooooo TEEN TITANS IS ON WOO!

Oh man, I just got back from Wendy's (got a biggie size #6), and Teen Titans just got over. Today sucked. Even at mini-golf we were behind all these people that took 10 shots to get a par 2.

At first I thought everyone was bad mouthing McDonald's just because someone said that they were removing the happy meal toys just to make more room for the chicken mcnuggets, but then I clicked "Previous Comments" and saw a URL address, which I went to. There, I saw the horrible truth.

So no more McD's for me. I'm a Burger King man now. By the way, it's interesting that we jumped from anime sucking to fast food sucking. Where's the connection?

Say what!?!?

That's right. I just decided for everyone that anime is the greatest. EVERYONE agrees with this FACT, and we can now stop bickering like children.

McDonalds is where all our anger should go. Them with their bad tasting food and health hazardous risks. I'M A SUBWAY MAN AND PROUD OF IT!!!

Oh and Smitty Teen Titans is on at 10 tonight so you won't miss it this time

500 posts who'd a thought that would happen. Man this board has been through a lot.

Ok....

>So no more McD's for me. I'm a Burger King man now.

They're better, but I'd go for some of the newer sub places where you can see them make your food.

>By the way, it's interesting that we jumped from anime sucking to fast food sucking. Where's the connection?

Well it started with Rachael saying Jason got her a Happy Meal. Then Guiding Light said he refused an offer from Jason for a Happy Meal, which prompted me to ask if I could have it (I liked McDonald's back then. I was so young, so innocent. ::sigh:: I miss the good ‘ol days). Then it just took off from there. I hope that answer’s your question. But, maybe it’d be best to read it all for yourself.

>McDonalds is where all our anger should go.

I have to agree. Maybe we should burn down all their restaurants (I use that term loosely).

Them with their bad tasting food and health hazardous risks.

And their hot coffee that spilled on some dumb lady and their food that ::gasps:: makes people fat.

>Oh and Smitty Teen Titans is on at 10 tonight so you won't miss it this time

I don’t think I can stay awake that long. Went to sleep at 5 this mornin’ and then got woken up at 6 to go to the beach. Has anyone ever gone into a coma from too much coffee? I probably pushed the limit today. Eh, caffeine draining energy... fading....fading.......fading........gone....

>Man this board has been through a lot.

Yea, I remember when people bitched about Amine and all that hoop-la.

I don’t even remember why I’m talking. Need more coffee.

I wanted to be the one who posted Message 500. Well, I'll pay more attention and post Message 1000.

Look, I can understand hating Poke'mon, Sailor Moon, or outdated 70s/80s anime, but look at the good stuff before you bash it. PLEEZE TRY COWBOY BEBOP! It is more "americanized" if thats what you want. Cowboy Bebop is alot like american movies and such, and would probably appeal to you haters. But let's think about american cartoons for a second. Cheap remakes (He-man, Ninja Turtles), Bad toons that survive only on a liscense (Jackie Chan), and the just plain bad (The Proud Family, Totally Spies) The quality bar is so much higher in Japan. Plus characters in Anime have personality, back stories, shady pasts, this is completely lacking in american cartoons, they're all about lame action sequences and gimmics. Do me a favor, watch a few Cowboy Bebop episodes, a friend of mine hates anime and LOVES this show. If u still hate anime......oh well. Then you can get back to "more intelligent shows" like American Idol, or the WWE Wrestling.

Hey! Ninja Turtles kick ass! Donatelo would kick your ass any day. But yes, Bebop does kick ass. Adult Swim on cartoon network... only anime I watch.

Oh yeah!... Well Michaelangelo could kick Donatello's ass any day of the week!... Yeah!

LOL I'm just joking cause we all known Raph ownz em all

As for anime, I don't hate the badly dubbed anime that much anymore. I merely hate three things about it

1. Fandom
2. The fact that a certain show get's so popular that they have to run it over and over again when they could easily replace it with something remotely better. 3. The fact that the censors edit WAY too much and/or change the subject of one thing to something else for instance in Rurouni Kenshin they replaced Saito's Cigerette with a toothpick that had SMOKE coming from it. In Yu Gi Oh they painted over guns so it looked like characters when trying to be threatening really weren't cause it looked like they were pointing their finger at the person.

Besides there's way more violence, sex, drugs and all of that on the news than there ever is in anime or even cartoons so I just find their pointless edits idiotic

Time to stir the coals.

Look, I can understand hating Poke'mon, Sailor Moon, or outdated 70s/80s anime,

Because the anime` you like is so much better than THAT OTHER anime`, right?

but look at the good stuff before you bash it.

I would, but there is no such thing as 'good anime`.'

PLEEZE TRY COWBOY BEBOP!

Looking back, this seems to be the most common response that people seem to use as justification for their obsession with anime`. Isn't the fact that the cartoon is more Americanized ruining what a proud Otaku would love about Japanimation?

I also fail to understand how, when I clearly stated that I've seen plenty of anime` and have come to the conclusion I do not like it, you seem to think that watching more would change my mind.

It is more "americanized" if thats what you want. Cowboy Bebop is alot like american movies and such, and would probably appeal to you haters.

Gently indicate where in my article I've stated that I watch and/or prefer ''American'' cartoons.

But let's think about american cartoons for a second. Cheap remakes (He-man, Ninja Turtles), Bad toons that survive only on a liscense (Jackie Chan), and the just plain bad (The Proud Family, Totally Spies)

Kindly indicate where in my article I ever compare anime` to any of the above.

The quality bar is so much higher in Japan. Plus characters in Anime have personality, back stories, shady pasts, this is completely lacking in american cartoons, they're all about lame action sequences and gimmics.

Ironically enough, the above fits perfectly with plenty of Japanimation I've seen.

Do me a favor, watch a few Cowboy Bebop episodes, a friend of mine hates anime and LOVES this show.

Then he obviously does not hate anime`.

If u still hate anime......oh well. Then you can get back to "more intelligent shows" like American Idol, or the WWE Wrestling.

A tough choice these days. Do I damage my brain watching wrestling or anime`?

I was under the impression that the feedback frenzy for this article had finally died, but I guess school must've started again.

leandro

3. The fact that the censors edit WAY too much and/or change the subject

You should find a video store much like Suspect Video, which provides the original, uncensored and unedited shows. This helps me quite a bit to see how horrible anime` is in their original state. As I groan in agony at the things the "story writer" implemented in the cartoon in a remotely vague attempt at humour, I can only wonder if the lobotomized version on the telly are that much more sanitized.

>Time to stir the coals.

And stirred they shall be!

>but there is no such thing as 'good anime`.'

Ah, so watching a few shows and listening to the Spice girls makes you an expert?

>Looking back, this seems to be the most common response that people seem to use as justification for their obsession with anime`.

And making fun of it is becomming your most common response for not liking it.

>Isn't the fact that the cartoon is more Americanized ruining what a proud Otaku would love about Japanimation?

Well maybe you'd like it if it were Canadianized.

>you seem to think that watching more would change my mind.

I think the Anime freaks are trying to brain-wash you... bastards.

>Do I damage my brain watching wrestling or anime`?

Well i think the Spice girls have done enough damage to you already.

>I was under the impression that the feedback frenzy for this article had finally died

No, it's Karma sending you a message to stop listening to crappy music.

>but I guess school must've started again.

Yea, make fun of kids... I bet you feel tough now.

:P

Riping Leandro new one's since 2003.

Ripping. If you're waiting for my ass to ripe, you've got a long way to go. It is currently firm. Like mutton.

Ah, so watching a few shows and listening to the Spice girls makes you an expert?

Of course. Besides, I listen to the Spice Girls because I appreciate the sub-genius that is hidden within their songs. Enlightment can be found here:

http://con.ca/issues/3/8/560

Yea, make fun of kids... I bet you feel tough now.

Kids always deserve a firm and sound beating.

leandro

>Ripping. If you're waiting for my ass to ripe, you've got a long way to go. It is currently firm. Like mutton.

So I didn't spell-check, big freakin' deal.

> listen to the Spice Girls because I appreciate the sub-genius that is hidden within their songs.

You and I both know they have the combined IQ of mayonise.

>Enlightment can be found here:

http://con.ca/issues/3/8/560

So you've been listening to that one song over and over and over for how many days now?

As far as enlightenment goes, are you trying to say they're the Lao Tzu's of the pop-world?

>Kids always deserve a firm and sound beating.

Whatever floats your boat.

:)

Back, and spell-checked!

You and I both know they have the combined IQ of mayonise.

Guess Microsoft Word doesn't know how to spell Mayonnaise.

leandro

Son-of-a-crap. Your anal-retentiveness beats me yet again. Spice Girls still suck.

Spice Girls still suck.

You should look at the good stuff before you bash it. Like Cowboy Bebop.

>You should look at the good stuff before you bash it.

Well I'll tell you what I want. Oh yes, what I really, really want. I never want to listen to them ever again. I hate them almost as much as Alanis... almost.

>Like Cowboy Bebop.

Adult-swim on Cartoon Network, oh yea.

But do the Spice Girls suck mayonnaise? Oooh, I'm feeling a litlle tingly. Spicy mayonnaise.

>But do the Spice Girls suck mayonnaise?

Worse... catsup!

Wait... what were you thinking I was going to say? Eww... you people are gross.

Hello everyone!! I'm BBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCKKKKKKK!!! mwahahahahahahaha!!!! How's everyone doing? Still debating whether anime sucks or not, right? yep, of course. Wow, I didn't know Leandro liked Spice Girls!! ^0^ I'm totally shocked!!! And here I thought he hated everything. I like Spice Girls too!!

And about Cowboy Bebop, I used to think it sucked big time until I started to watch more and more of it, and now I like it!!! It's not as bad as I thought it was. It's pretty cool!! What I don't like is the last episode when he dies. Spike is such a cool character and then he has to die. I'm a sucker for happy endings. I hate tragic endings, that's why the end of Cowboy Bebop sucks, but other than that, it's cool.

And rev likes Teen Titans?? that's another surprise to me ^_^. It is anime influenced. And that McDonald's thing was nasty. I don't know if all the things they say are true because my friend worked at McDonald's and everything was very neat there. It depends on which McDonald's it is, they're all different, but I know most of them are gross.

Oh well, I'm glad to see everyone's cool!! ^_^

My mistake!!! It's Smitty not Rev!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You do know you just ruined the show for people... bitch. And what's wrong with Teen Titans? I love cartoon network. Ahh... been up too long. I hate you Goku. And I actually don't like everything on cartoon network. I really don't like a lot of things now that I think aboot it...

Still debating whether anime sucks or not, right?

When something is certain, as the title of this article boldly proclaims, there is nothing to debate.

Wow, I didn't know Leandro liked Spice Girls!! ^0^ I'm totally shocked!!!

Like, totally.

And here I thought he hated everything.

Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups.

leandro

aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh go back to hell where you came from, Smitty, stupid @$$hole. Yeah, you know I hate you too.

Anyways, Leandro's with his sarcasm as usual. Hasn't changed. I find it pretty cute that you like Spice Girls ^_^. I guess you can't hate everything in life.

Oh well, just wanted to see what was new and stuff. (Man, I hope Smitty gets hit by a truck) Oops, did I say that out loud?

Well, see ya later!! ^_^ Nos vemos.

Wo who'd of thought this topic would still be around but eh who cares it's more fun that way and it get's this topic closer to the 1000 post extravaganza ^_^

Well to me, anime is no different from Justice League or TMNT even though both TMNT and anime are kinda better than the Justice League cartoon but hey that's my opinion. I think all superhero cartoons with the exception of Teen Titans suck and it's not because it's uber popular amongst comic fanboys. It's because Teen Titans is the only superhero cartoon that actually held my interest formore than a nanosecond.

As for the Spice Girls............Weird Al Yankovich ownz them forEVER!!!!!!!

I heard they were the female version of the village people but hey don't hold me to that bwhahahaha

Yeah Guiding Light!!! You're still the MAN!!! ^_^

>aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh go back to hell where you came from, Smitty

Well that comment certianly had a nice beginning.

>stupid @$$hole

I see no need for name calling.

>(Man, I hope Smitty gets hit by a truck)

funny you should mention that...

>Oops, did I say that out loud?

Oh my God! YOU are just soooo funny. I just LOVED how you say somehting incredibly mean and ill-manered and then cover it up by trying to act sweet. But who am I kiddin'? I can't stay mad at you, with your child-like innocence and all.

You know something Goku, I've seen a few episodes of Dragonball and everytime I see it the Goku guy seems to be dead. Some hero. And thats kinda freaky on it's own... worshiping a dead guy. I mean, most religions do it but since Anime characters don't exist I think it's a little cult-ish. ("Now we sacrifice this lamb to Goku, god of lame energy beams!")

Meh.

And Light, liked the village people thing, almost fell out of my chair laughing.

I heard they were the female version of the village people but hey don't hold me to that bwhahahaha

You should look at the good stuff before you bash it. Like Cowboy Bebop.

leandro

Who says I haven't? Plus it's pretty obvious how much they're not the most greatest band especially after their bomb of a movie "Spice World." I admit though that they are better than most artists are today but then again I'd say that Madonna is better than most current artists today.

So hey I didn't mean to insult you but that's just my opinion

it's pretty obvious how much they're not the most greatest band especially after their bomb of a movie "Spice World."

It's quite a shame that their movie did not do so well. I was a little reluctant in seeing it at first, thinking it was going to be some silly drivel aimed at kids your age, but it turned out to be quite an intelligent little script. Not as good as say, "Josie and the Pussycats," but the movie is filled with tiny little things that kids would most likely miss.

I admit though that they are better than most artists are today but then again I'd say that Madonna is better than most current artists today.

That's debatable.

So hey I didn't mean to insult you

You're confusing me for an anime` fan.

leandro

S: I see no need for name calling

Flashback time (before I called him a stupid A-Hole)

S: You do realize you ruined the show for everybody....b***h.

I also see no need for name calling.

Smitty's ALWAYS had something against me, always, I don't know why, and he didn't even get a chance to know me, only my bad side because he's always asking for it. I come say hi to everyone, and he comes calling me names and "I hate you Goku" and crap like that, well, I hate you just as much or more. Now we're even. >.<.

I guess it's because I fall into his "People I dislike" list, and anyone who has those qualities he has to bash and put them down, and he hates them before he even knows them. And he says he's not a hateful person. Gimme a break. I don't even mess with Leandro anymore, who I used to love messing with and he's cool to me. Just because he hates anime doesn't mean I have to hate him for it, he has shown me that he's a cool person, he has a cool prersonality.

Smitty says I make childish comments when he's the one who starts it all, just like a child. We're dealing with a child here, people. I'm telling you that idiot makes me sick to my freaking stomach!

Are you going crazy because I spoiled Cowboy Bebop for you? Well, that's too damn bad. I can say whatever the hell I want in this forum. Are you gonna stop watching it now? Watching something and seeing it actually happen is not the same thing. If you imagine it the way people tell you stuff, then there's no need to program shows you're gonna miss. Just ask the people who saw it what happened, since you have such a great imagination.

So Smitty, arguing with you is just a waste of time because nothing goes through that head of yours, so for the trillionth time, BUTT OUT OF MY CONVERSATIONS!! When I said hi, I meant everybody, but now, you're just OUT!! You can die for all I care.

"It's quite a shame that their movie did not do so well. I was a little reluctant in seeing it at first, thinking it was going to be some silly drivel aimed at kids your age"

And what are you suggesting that I'm a 13 year old who knows everything? First I happen to not know everything and second I'm 19 and if that's the age where you'd see a movie with drivel in it then are you impling that my taste in movies is bad? Well we can't all like Rambo or Saturday Night Fever and I sure as hell can't stand the Spice Girls but as I said that is my opinion

are you impling that my taste in movies is bad?

Oh, no. I would never do that. However, when someone says something like:

Madonna is better than most current artists

I think they're "impling" it themselves.

leandro

>Smitty's ALWAYS had something against me

Yep, the minute you were born I hated you.

>and he didn't even get a chance to know me

First impressions...

>he comes calling me names and "I hate you Goku" and crap like that,

Names,yep; saying I hate you, yep; crap like that, yep.

>well, I hate you just as much or more. Now we're even. >.<.

Hurah! And we're so not even.

>I guess it's because I fall into his "People I dislike" list

Oh don't flatter yourself. Sure, I'd bitch back in a comment but I'd never take the tie to write an article about you. And your not on the people I dislike list. Those are groups of people. Try reading something before talkin' about it.

>and anyone who has those qualities he has to bash and put them down

Well it's not the "People I like and don't bas or put down list" now is it?

> and he hates them before he even knows them

I made the list around the people I DO know. And like I said, there are some I know that I don't dislike.

>And he says he's not a hateful person

I'm not.

>Gimme a break

I have a Kit-Kat if you want it.

>Smitty says I make childish comments

You are bitching to others about me...

>when he's the one who starts it all

You brought it upon yourself.

>just like a child

How can you be sure I'm not a child?

>We're dealing with a child here, people

Was it you who said not to make assumptions? And what happened to the whole name calling thing?

>I'm telling you that idiot makes me sick to my freaking stomach!

... ogeda... take a few Tums ;)

>Are you going crazy because I spoiled Cowboy Bebop for you?

Yes! I'm furious! I broke all the TV's in my house when I heard the news about the guy.

>I can say whatever the hell I want in this forum

FUUUCKKK!!! Fuck, fuck, fuckety, fuck, fuck, fuck.

>So Smitty, arguing with you is just a waste of time

Then stop. If your going to bitch about me saying things back then just stop posting.

>BUTT OUT OF MY CONVERSATIONS!!

Your bitching about me in a public forum... I'm just as much a part of this as you are. Or were you talking to yourself?

>When I said hi, I meant everybody

So that "heeey smitty" wasn't to me?

>You can die for all I care.

I love you, too.

<3 Smitty-boy

Now, bashing Spice Girls is one thing -- perhaps the fact that they are a parody has eluded you, that's OK.

But don't talk smack about The Village People. Sheer genius, they are.

Who says that comment was insulting the village people? I didn't say or mean that so if you thought it was then I'm sorry. Also I'm not the one who said it, it was something I heard in High School and I just thought it was a fitting remark to use right now but in no way did I say "I hate the village people" or did I mean to insult them. It's more like an analogy

It was just a joke so there's no need to take it too literally, it was meant to be funny

I know you're not going to like what I have to say, but you remind me so much of Spike from Cowboy Bebop. Yes you do very much. You both don't really care much about what people think and you're like walls most of the time. Not many things impact neither of you. I dunno, you both are so alike. ^_^ ^_^ My apologies for comparing you to an anime character. ^_^

the villige people were all FAGGOTTS and if u like them your a faggott too! I bet the spice girls don't get you hard like the villige people do and thats why you dont like them

Which was how the comparison got started, I was told that the spice girls were lesbians and that they were the female version of the village people. I found it funny and thus when someone uses the spice girls as a reference, I tend to joke around with that remark because it's supposed to be funny and if it's true, then so what whatever floats their boat.

OAnd thanks Gokugirl for that humble characterization, I never knew I was like spike at all until you said so ^_^

So in anycase that's all I have to say on that subject. I really don't care if Leandro likes the spice girls or not I was just joking around and if that's wrong then I'll just never joke around anymore.

I honestly don't like either the spice girls or the village people. Actually I hate them both and not because of "

"OMG I R A HOMOPHOBE!!!!!1!111!1111!"

but because I just think they plain suck, I don't like their music and they're just very unappealing just as other music entity's like Madonna or Avril would be classified. That's just in my own opinion. There are very few music bands that I can tolerate and there are even fewer bands that I actually like.

Guiding Light and bruno have perfectly demonstrated why the Anime debate is so stupid, on both sides. You are not what you watch, listen to, or anything. Those boil down to taste, which cannot be shown to be "right" or "wrong". You like or hate what you will, and your preferences don't mean squat to anyone besides you.

The article has shown that its premise is correct -- that the Anime fanatics (or any fanatic, for that matter) cannot seperate between their own sense of worth and Anime, so to attack anime is to attack them, personally. What's surprising is that the same stupidity (just in reverse) shows through on the part of many here who attack it. Both camps are full of shit.

Each side tries to convince the other through laughable "logical" arguments, when the matter under debate isn't logical to begin with and no convincing is possible. I hate apples, but why should I give a hoot whether other people like them or not? I like ketchup on my macaroni and cheese, but I'm not offended when other people find the notion disgusting.

GL, I wasn't thining that you were attacking the VP. I was making a joke.

Well don't I feel foolish then aheh, I couldn't tell that it was a joke to be honest with you

Fenderson's right. Who cares if I like Anime and the Spice Girls (I love the Spice Girls) that's me and that's all that matters, and what Jason was trying to do was that exactly, trying to make me realize that. You should feel secure with what you like and not give a damn if people put what you like down. I do like to try to convince them otherwise, but if you can't, you can't. That's their opinion. And Guiding Light's still #1!! ^_^

I feel so loved ::weep::

lol thanks Gokugirl for thinking so ^_^

I really don't care if Leandro likes the spice girls or not I was just joking around and if that's wrong then I'll just never joke around anymore.

You need to never be insecure anymore.

It's just something that's natural with me, it's hard for me to be secure and if you knew me in real life you'd know why. I say that because it's way too complex to just say on here.

it's hard for me to be secure

Perhaps you should start learning not to give a toss what people say or think.

leandro

>start learning not to give a toss what people say or think.

Trust me, Leonardo's got that down.

OK, now I'm dying to know what reason you have for being insecure, GL. Are you massively deformed? An alien? French? What???

A robot in disguise?